I'm looking to re-create a workflow that was easy and fast on my old Emu esi-32.
I'll do the question first, and preamble later...

Is there a software sampler that can easily assign a sample to a Midi keyboard, then load another sample to the same key so they both trigger at the same time. Then allow me to alter the zero crossing start point of the second sample left and right (ideally with eg. the arrow keys.) and pitch the sample down easily.?

Why?

On my Esi-32 (and all other samplers of the time) it was lightning fast to match loops, you could assign both samples to a key and sit there tapping the keyboard while moving the start point forward and backwards between zero crossing points.
This was useful for matching guitars which have vague start points. You would just pitch the guitar sample down an octave and adjust until it really "locked in" with a drum loop. Then pitch back up.

Because you're triggering it by hand you could "feel" when it was right.
It seems that modern vst samplers aren't designed to be used this way,or at least make it more complicated and/or want you to set the start points by mouse.
Which makes the whole process slow and tedious. You go from 4 adjustments a second to an adjustment every 8 seconds.

I've tried in Renoise and various other software, and it's mostly the "jumping between zero crossings from the keyboard and not mouse" feature where it all falls down.

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this, (or can point out that I'm an idiot, and i just need to do it like this!)

I'm mostly using Reaper and Renoise.

Thanks!

 

Waves CR8 allows you to midi control almost any parameter, such as the start and end point of the sample with different assignments for each sample layer, so you can play two or more samples with the same key while moving the start/end points of one of them with a pot.
It has not options to control it with the computer keyboard, so in that case you have to use some keyboard to midi tool, or some Reaper JS trick.

 

Thanks for the suggestion!
Do you happen to know if it can move the start point by jumping to the next zero-crossing ? I think this may be the key feature i'm looking for...
( Incidently, I wish Reaper had a "Nudge to next zero-crossing feature" instead of just ms,samples or grid.)
Doing it by midi keyboard instead of computer keyboard wouldn't be a problem.

 

Yes, CR8 has 3 snap modes, beat, transient and zero crossing.

 

Reaper has Alt+Z to split item at previous zero crossing, so if you create a custom action to move the cursor and then to split at zero crossing, it should work.

 

For this part of your request on workflow; check Serato Sample. It lets you do exactly this with keyboard or controller. (via hitpoint detection)


"SAMPLE (SERATO) – $79
CREATIVE SLICER FOR REFRESHING LONG PASSAGES INTO NEW, REMIXED PHRASES

One of the most interesting takes on creative sampling you might come across, Sample (VST/AU) plays the long game – meaning that it’s most adept at chewing over long samples, analyzing and playing them back in its own special way.

Load a long sample into this plugin, then hit the Find Samples button, and Sample will analyze the file for chunks and slices that it believes are musically interesting, letting you play each start point back using your MIDI or QWERTY keyboard. The sampling type is very much in the vein of classic hip-hop, depending on the material you choose to put through it, of course."

 

Keep in mind that the sister site does have a 64 bit version of E-Mu Emulator X3. You'd have to look and see if it can do if you want, but logic would dictate, since it was the last thing E-Mu ever made, that it can do anything that their hardware could have done.

The normal manual is 350 pages and there's an advanced manual that's 150 pages, so it can probably do what you want.

 

I'll look into it, Thanks! pity there's no demo.

Thanks! I will also look into this.

I vaguely remember trying with Serato, I think there was some reason that I couldn't get it to do what I wanted. I think that because it's an old archaic technique, most software designers think "...surely it's far easier with a big screen and a mouse? pfft, go buy a 12inch record.Grandad..!"
:D But I'll re-investigate. Thanks!

Hmmm, maybe... I had a quick look at the manual and you may be onto something. There was a "Jump to next zero crossing" parameter, and it does look like it may be able to do it. I shall investigate. Cheers!

 

I think it is more because unless you are playing live and need samples layered on to individual keys or zones; our computers are now resources rich enough to just run multiple instances of sampler plugins and duplicated midi data. You get the benefit of being able to edit the midi data to each layer separately, and also true Insert and Send FX for each layer. It's a more flexible option.

 

here.s a video about sampling with the E-Mu Emulator X3. there is also Kriminal WaveWitch pretty cool.

 

May be worth a try

TX16W
Tal Sampler
or Kontakt.

 

Use Reaper to it's full power.
Here are
actions for zero-crossing


Reapack scripts for playing with zero-crossing

 

the demo is automatic when you install it over waves central app

https://www.waves.com/support/evaluate-and-demo-waves-products

 

I want the opposite of those options..('cos I'm awkward )
I want to "nudge" the selected item 1 zero crossing right or left.
I can nudge right or left by milliseconds, samples, frames, grid units etc. but not "move the selected item one zero crossing right from the edit cursor position.

A pseudo script would be...

if right arrow is pressed,
Move edit cursor to the next zero crossing
count how many samples the edit cursor has moved. assign this value to x
nudge item x samples right

 

No luck with the Emu X3. Especially with it's teeny tiny fonts and buttons, with black writing on a brushed grey background...my poor eyes!

I could route almost every parameter to every other thing...except,jump to next zero-crossing. Which it could do,but only by pressing a teensy-tiny arrow on the sample edit screen...

I'm guessing the problem is that I'm after a feature that was originally a hardware button on the front panel of a sampler...

I didn't have much joy with Serato either. It was very powerful and did it's thing very well, but not quite what I was after...

A few people have asked for the same thing that I was after in Reaper and Renoise forums,(nudge item to next zero crossing) But they usually get shot down after a few forum posts... "That's stooopid!! why would you want that ? Can't see any use for it..,It's Impossible!! What about stereo files!!! etc."

I'm just off to try the TX16W...

 

Last edited: Jun 6, 2023

Usually you adapt your workflow to the software you use, not the other way around. But Apple also kept hammering away with keeping EXS24 and Ultrabeat for years. But then in the Logic 10.5 *free* update they finally listened to users and made Drum Machine Designer awesome, ditched Ultabeat/EXS24 entirely, gave us Q-Sampler, and many other changes (like how Time is handled). Aside from Falcon2, Kontakt, and my E-Mu; I have not used another sampler since. The sample never even leaves the DAW. That free update was such a massive undertaking/overhaul I cannot think of any other comparable update to a product. I did the same "sampler hunt" trying different ones for years; and they were all "Almost exactly what I want". Logic 10.5 update ended that entirely.

You should maybe make a list of pros and cons for each one you try out, and then pick one. Adapt your workflow to it.

Or just get another E-Mu.

 

Don't make me get it from the top of the wardrobe!!! I will, I'm warning 'ya!!!

 

You should read the Emu X3 manual

 

I did, and I saw that. It wasn't the shifting to next zero crossing that was the problem, It was shifting the start point of the loop while playing another loop whilst not being in the sample loop menu.

 

Last edited: Jun 7, 2023