Hello sexpros ,

I have an RME Fireface 400 with Ableton Live . The maximum buffer it can reach through ASIO is 1024 for 44.1 , 48 khz and 2048 from 88.2 and up . Because i work with 44.1 and 48 , is there any Audio Interface ( i want only 2 audio balanced outputs for the speakers , i dont care for mic pre amps or anything else , a simple interface to use it for music production inbox ) that can reach 2048 and beyond ( 4096 if possible ) and be stable without pops drops etc ? Anyone that uses something similar and can guarantee a flawless operation ? It could be usb , firewire , pci etc .
Also i dont want to spend another 1000+ euros since i have the RME . Something cheap that it can manage the job ..... Thank you

( I have found Audient Evo 4 which is an option but dont know buffer sizes etc . If someone uses it , i really want an opinion ) .

 

shouldn't you be looking for a faster cpu?
some plugins misbehave with 4096 sample intervals (waves, izotope is one if I'm not mistaking)

 

Forgot to say that the PC that i will use will be powerful to handle everything

Also i have no experience with buffer sizes over 1024 , so i dont know the behavior of plugins from 2048 and 4096 thats why im asking opinions .

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2023

Why do you want your buffer rate set so high . Having a higher buffer rate is to remove stress on your cpu but with the cost of added latency . If you get pops and clicks higher buffer rate solves this . I’m running a m1 Mac at 128 bit buffer rate with no latency using a Audient evo 16 and 2 sp8 adats . With you having a rme interface and a powerful pc I can’t see why you’d need it so high . I’m regards to higher buffer rate settings 2048 it’s not the interface that sets the rate it’s the app you’re using with the device . For example logic gives me a max buffer rate of 1024 where as izotope rx gives me 2048 .

 

No its not the app , its the interface specs , i have asked RME ( maybe i do something wrong and it can go up ) and they have told me that its maximum on 44.1 and 48 is 1024 ( dont know why Logic doesnt give you a higher option , im on PC ) . I dont care so much about latency since i mix only , no recording . My idea is to combine a powerful cpu - ram - ssds etc with the highest buffer in order to be able to handle as much plugins as i can without pops drops and very high cpu usage . I dont know the behavior of higher buffer settings thats why i ask and want to try .

 

I don’t need logic to give me a higher setting I run logic on a low buffer rate for that reason so I have no latency . I’m able to run plenty instances of kontakt , phaseplant , serum , so on with no latency . My reason for working at 48k is because I use outboard gear and need all the additional adat inputs which if I was running at 96k it would half my input count . The only reason as I said to have a higher buffer rate is because your pc cpu and ram can’t perform in which you end up with pops and clicks . Latency is the time you press a key and the time it gets printed in your daw . Myself using outboard gear latency was killer on my old Intel Mac to the point it was sometimes un workable even at higher buffer settings . So from what rme told you and you wanting to work at a higher buffer rate you need to change you project sample rate to 96k not sure if that’s correct but I don’t use a rme interface . Try a new poroject at 96k and see if you can raise your buffer rate higher . but trust me all your doing is increasing your latency round trip . I could understand if you’re using say 50 instances of kontakt and it’s causing you issues and pop ups , freezing your daw other than that there’s no need for higher buffer rate .

 

On my RME HDSP 9632 I can set buffer size to 4096 samples, it works and I use it sometimes

 

Before buying a new interface, do this test: use task manager (or process lasso - to make it permanent) and using the CPU affinity option, remove the daw from cores 0 and 1. These two are heavily used by drivers and system, and if the daw is using them and they get overloaded, the daw will click and pop. I have a i9 and doing so I rarely have anymore issues with my projects.

 

You have plenty of outboard gear so you need low buffer settings , im in the box . I have written that from 88.2 and above it can use 2048 buffer but not on 44.1 and 48 . But i dont want to use those higher khz . Most newer interfaces are 2048 at least at 44.1 and 48 . I want to try the 2048 option in a newer interface to see whats going on . Thank you for your answers !

 

Comparing 1024 vs 2048 vs 4096 first in CPU handling ( the percent ) and latency in mixing , whats your opinion ? Also in 4096 again in the mix , is it possible to work like that ?

 

Very interesting !!! I will try it , didnt know that !!! Also if you want to use your CPU on full power all the time , disable Intel speedstep from BIOS if you havent done it yet and if the i9 have this option ( im in old CPU and dont know if newers use it )

The procedure is to set the affinity for the new project you will work ? For example i load Ableton in a new lets say untitled project . Then i go to the task manager and find this project and do the procedure ? Am i right ? By that way every time i load Ableton i have to do it again for a new project ? Also , if i do it for a project i work , do i have to do it again or it keeps the settings ? ( You have written that with lasso its permanent thats why i ask if i have understood right ) .

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2023

@Pat22 If you don't need to play the instrument in real time, 4096 samples saved my life many times in a situation where the buffer of 2048 samples caused crackling, but this was tested on Intel i7 2700K, now I have i9 9900K and I haven't been forced to use such a high buffer yet

 

You set the affinity for Ableton Live.exe in task manager. It is temporary - until you quit the app (I mean Live, not task manager). So yeah, open the project, manage the affinity - and test how it behaves, it could be better or worse. But deffo worth trying.

Process Lasso (free version is enough) can make cpu priority and affinity permanent. Ah yes, you can also set higher priority for Live (not realtime, but just under). Finally, the Ultimate Performance power plan (Win 11) keeps the CPU at it's top speed (mine is also overcloked at 4.9 in bios)

 

HDSP9652 can handle 4096 buffer, but it's PCI. I have one inserted into a PCI-e to PCI adapter and it works flawlessly even with 128 samples buffer size and I use it when I need multiple ADAT ports to communicate with external hardware. On my main PC I never used buffer size higher than 1024 and with RME driver, clicks are very rare even at 256 sample buffer. One reason I could opt for a higher buffer is to lower CPU usage, but using a mixed setup between some outboard and DSP based processing cards, I never reach more than 50% of my Ryzen CPU. Another possible suggestion to avoid clicks, it depends on the audio driver and RME drivers are one of the best around, but for example with my XITE-1, it's driver is not perfect and it requires to disable virtualization from the BIOS and also to disable Hyperthreading/SMT to avoid using virtual cores. In short, disabling virtual cores improves real time performance, but decreases offline performance such as offline rendering.
Another possible cause of clicks, could be some plugin not properly optimized, I encountered some troubles when using Levels from Mastering the Mix company, or also using many instances of some "AI" based plugin from Sonible and this is not dependent on CPU/buffer performance, but it's because of bad optimization of some plugins, so in that case the best solution is to replace the buggy plugin with something else or consolidate to audio the tracks using it.

 

Higher buffer settings do not always result in less dropouts/pops/clicks etc.. Buffer settings that are to high will put more strain on memory & disk reads/writes.

How you you system is setup from BIOS to OS the first step after hardware considerations.

Also having unnecessary programs & background tasks running will of ten cause random system errors & lag. At the very least they will be using resources needed by Ableton.

A basic Windows based system for dependable audio production as an example:
8 core CPU
32G of RAM
512 SSD for OS & programs
2TB to 4TB SSD for projects & instrument libraries
Some dependable media for backups ( 7200 RPM Enterprise drive(s)/2.5 SSD/NVMe)

 

Yeah i understood right . Be careful because the ulimate performance doesnt disable intel speedstep !! Its a bios hardware setup that cannot be changed by software . I dont know if they have changed something ( i dont think ) because i havent disabled nowadays ( i was in win 8 when using full cpu power all time ) . Check it from cpu-z , core speed to see if it runs full speed all time . Also go to bios to see if it is disabled .

 

hello . My consideration is to see whats going on with high buffer settings in order to be able to process more plugins . By building a fast PC ( high freq ram , pcie ssds etc ) with high buffer i imagine that it will handle more and more plugins . I know everything about hardware etc , thank you for your answer and time .

 

Hello . You have DSP cards so you can handle a lot of plugins without stressing your CPU . The problem is that you cant help me lol you had to use only your CPU to give me some info . Never mind .... I have thought also about buying DSP cards but i have to test first if im ok without . Never used AMD CPU always Intel and im very curious if the 13900kf can do the job . Take in consideration that few plugin uses multicores ( like U-he ) . You need CPUs with the highest core frequency and not with more cores ( sorry for my english , hope you understand the point ) .

 

Hello . You used high buffer with ASIO drivers or MME/Direct X ? . . Also the difference in handling when using 4096 was better for your CPU or the same ? If you still remember .

 

For effect plugins, CPUs are so fast now that the extra work your DAW has to perform with smaller buffer sizes is pretty miniscule. (Unless your DAW is really bad at thread handling or your plugins are really badly coded.)

scanproaudio.info regularly tests CPUs if you want to check with them.
Gearspace also has a long thread with DAWBench results.

TLDR: (Roughly) going from 64 to 128 = +10% plugin instances. 128 to 256 = +6%. 256 to 512 = +4%.
Kontakt (the 'VI' test) really likes bigger buffers though, but also has diminishing returns. 64 to 128 = +54% voices, 128 to 256 = +38%, 256 to 512 = +36%.