Hi all kind listening folk,
Got a hassle with a Soundbetter 'producer' who claims he's done his work well while I am saying that is far from the case. One sticking point =is his 'work' on my voice which member may have already suffered from listening to. I specifically requested he produce my voice so it would sound acceptable. What he believed to be so was very far from what I could tolerate. Due to his poor production I ended up having to do the job myself.
I would deepy appreciate members listening to the song and giving your opinion on how acceptable a job he did.
If you want more background to the dispute, you can hear two versions - one with the vocals I corrected and the mix I was wanting and the vocals he claimed he corrected and the mix he sent me despite my clear instructions.
If you feel you get the idea of the type and scale of difference without having to listen to all of the two songs- go for it. Members here are pretty experienced and pick up on stuff quickly.
ASx members' opinions will help me settle this dispute with Soundbetter adminstrators.
In deep appreciation.

PS
First up is his mix, second is mine

 

I think the production is ok for the material he had to work with. Timing of the vocals is awful, i would reject them. And your version is much worse concerning mix and timing.

 

It's hard to say without hearing what the raw vocals are like, but in comparing yours to his it sounds like he put some sort of weird doubler or chorus or "early reflections" effect on your vocals which doesn't suit the genre or song at all. He probably stuck a "dimension expander" effect on it or something, which might be more suitable for rap stuff, but in this scenario it has put the vocal in a weird space that feels unnatural. Probably an amateur. How much did you pay?

Other than the weird effect the production he did on the vocals sound okay to me

 

Not talking about vocals in particular but a whole mix wise, first mix sounds fuller in the mids which translate to "better" in my cheap earbuds contrary to yours which sounds thin and lacking, once i get the chance ill listen on my monitors and give a proper reply.

 

Maybe i'm a bit biased because i know a Soundbetter producer and his everyday work trying to make clients happy and ending up in hours of work and emails before not getting paid a reasonable price, sorry for that.

 

Thanks all . Appreciate yr honesty and appraisal but also understand I had made very clear the type of song I was seeking. I sought a piece that had elements of mystery and beauty with facets interacting throughout the piece. I find his mix extremely static and bland. Fascinating to get objective responses though.

Fee? $500 US

Understand yr take on this MYfan but I was the one endlessly writing and explaining - took him 6 months to move way from his mix to the ‘interactive’ mix I wanted that I had demonstrated to him with a template from the beginning

 

Ok, it's always hard to judge if you don't know the whole story and the raw material. But i can say it's sometimes also hard for a producer to work with what you get and what the client expects. Sometimes it's better to reject a job, but you often don't know how it will be working out before. Working 6 months on one song? I would never do that, even if it's just one day every 2 weeks. But that's the problem with services like Soundbetter and any kind of art like music, if you start working, you already spend some hours, and when it's clear that you and your client will not come together, who's gonna pay for this?

 

Just subjective taste:

I think what he did with your voice specifically is quite a bit nicer to listen to than what you came up with, even if the doubling effect sounds bad.

I don't think the end result justifies the 6 months spent on it and I don't think he hit the mark for 'mystery' or 'interaction'. Yes, it's pretty bland, but I'd argue he came closer 'beauty' than you did in your prod

I don't really like either, but if you made me choose one to put on repeat for 2 hours, I'd go with his.
It's more focused, has depth/width, is more pleasant to the ear and the few elements he picked do work together.

I'd be pretty unhappy with the end result though and I'd consider starting over.
Maybe you two were just not managing to communicate with each other.

(Was he going for Leonard Cohen - Marianne?)

 

I think you should post the original file and we can see what he really did to it that costs $500. $500 is real money! If I got this from a Soundcloud Mastering job for 5$ I'd be pretty happy with the results. For 500$, I think this guy should have been wearing a ski mask, because it sounds like 495$ worth of lube.

 

You mean Suzanne, don't you?

On topic: 500$ w-t-f ... as far as I can tell (without knowing the raw audio files as others mentioned before) to me this has two sides. I can somehow unterstand that you're disappointment is up to a level you don't want to pay. His mix simply does not sound good. If he got rid of that weird female vocals for example, although you explained him otherwise, this is a strange decision to do that. Did he do the job? Yeah, kind of. That you don't like the results is another story.

On the other hand. I cannot understand the amount of money you paid. I am not into Soundbetter or equivalents, but from the videos/comparisons I have seen, you can get an ok mix/master for far less money. The problem is: if you are looking for someone to mix your track to sound "beautiful", it is necessary you give him tracks which sound beautiful recorded. Not the case here, as far as I can hear. Not meant to be offensive here! To me there is potential this track can sound to your liking ... with elements like the vocals re-recorded.

For 500$ it seems like a far better option for me to get in touch with a studio, talk with a producer about your track/aim and make a recording session together. Simply put: you can get a full day in a decent studio for that money. If the chemistry is good between you and the recording guy, chances are good you got at least a far better vocal performance for your track on that given day. You have to be open for feedback though and try to work hand in hand with others envolved.

 

Last edited: Feb 8, 2023

No, I did mean "(So long,) Marianne"

(Dude must've been into his -annes)

 

That's a different thing than a whole production. Soundbetter is not only about mixing and mastering. For example, my colleague sometimes gets offers for a complete pop production and then gets some lines of vocals sung without click or anything, without any playback, whithout any key as reference. And the advice "the song should sound like Ava Max". And that's no joke. Of course he rejects such things immediately, but some people have that expectation. And you have to answer to all proposals, even if they're completely useless for you or you lose your ranking. This can eat up much time already.

So 500$ for a complete production including writing and recording instruments, arranging, spending lots of time correcting vocals in Melodyne, mixing, doing corrections until the client is happy and delivering a master is not much. Soundbetter and Paypal take away 8%, so you get 460$. A premium user like my colleague pays 59$ a month additionally. And depending on country, you have to pay taxes for your income.

Of course the song in the OP is a bad example, as there is not much in it and i also agree it's not worth spending 500$.

But let's hear from Lee what he provided. Only the vocal recording with chords as playback? Or also instrumental recordings?

 

I understand what he was going for, and why he maybe didn't get there.

Going for that 90s Roger Water's vibe and it is recognizable but the doubling is a little heavy handed and the overall balance of the mix is a bit too heavy on the left. Some of that phased sound comes from the tuning as well as his added FX but it pops a lot more in paid mix because it's in really audible frequencies. It is in the original as well, just more buried as the music is mixed in louder and more compressed. His mix is more open, less compressed and in general well done outside production decisions that are a bit outside of the purview of a mix engineer.

I think he tried to give you what you asked for, but you weren't looking for a mix engineer but more of a post production orchestrator with a creative side, but then the product would be his interpretation of your interpretation and you guys would have probably been at loggerheads over something or an other.

Your own mix is a lot more compressed and lacks the subtlety, clarity and frequency balance of his, but the doubles are gone, which is a good thing as the timing isn't rigorous enough for the track to take such an time dependent effect and try to force it into the track. If he was going to do that he should have just time grid aligned your vocal as well, but it might have changed too much.

Honestly who knows if you got close to your money's worth in time and effort, that is impossible to say without hearing what went into studio. My best guess is he probably spent close to a day on it trying to solve the timing issues. 8-10 hours at 500 bucks isn't robbery, it is fair pay, but that's just taking a guess. It really depends on the source material.

 

Both mixes in my ears are terrible.The 500 mix is like he didnt mix it at all.Your mix also is not very good but it has some depth in it a bit warmer.You could probably do a better mix yourself if you try harder and sing better.I wouldn't give this guy 5 euros

 

for 500 you get what you pay

 

Hey Lee! Hope this finds you well!

I agree with some others here that to actually evaluate what this "producer" was doing for you it would help to hear what you sent him to begin with. As it stands now, hard to figure out what this guy actually did.

Some positives... I'm not hearing any 'Dylanisms' like in your last song post, which is good. I am hearing some Leonard Cohen but it's not so much that I feel you're engaging in mimicry this time. More like your work is just in a certain 'school' of music. I'm still enjoying your lyrics!

Now for the less positive stuff...

Last time you posted a song there was some back and forth about voice training and perhaps grabbing some singing tutorials from next door. If I'm to be honest, I think without pursuing that for some months, these other ventures, particularly ones that cost you good money, are in my opinion a waste of time. I'm not clear on what you expected from this 'producer'. I sincerely don't want to sound insulting, and I apologize in advance if it hurts your feelings,--truly not my intention, but it reminds me of the old expression, 'lipstick on a pig'. You seem reasonably cognizant of your strengths and weaknesses, you need to work on the weak spots in order to proceed. A $500-a-pop online 'producer', in my opinion, probably won't provide a real fix for the weaknesses, but will likely have no problem taking your money. Honestly, had it been me I would have told you to keep your money, work some more on what you're doing, and come back sometime down the pike to re-evaluate.

Does the guy deserve the $500?? Probably. Not because he's done anything great or even that good, but more because you got yourself into some magical thinking that someone else can straighten out what you yourself need to be working on, and improving upon. Put bluntly, it's your mistake, not his. Just my point of view, but the majority of these online 'fix-your-song' businesses are mostly there to capitalize on other peoples hopes and dreams. The overwhelming majority of people I've encountered who've tried that route are never very happy with the results. At your level of vocalizing, a real producer would be sitting with you and a microphone in person, going thru your song line by line until every note sounds right, no matter how long it takes. I've been on a helluva lot of recording sessions with singers, and its not uncommon for it to go that way, that's how it is, particularly with untrained vocalists. You should see what it's like with singers doing sessions for TV commercials! You'll have a half dozen people in a room scrutinizing the pitch and delivery of every single word. It's tiring, tedious, and boring as all hell, but that's what it takes. The answer is rarely shipping off your work to someone else and thinking it'll come back to you in line with your hopes and dreams.

Sorry to have gone on. I still hear something promising with you, and I hope you take my more blunt remarks in stride. I'm only trying to give you some (for me at least) honest impressions.

 

I think the guy should not be charging 500$ for this work, because he should never have accepted it.

This is like getting an Uber, and asking them to drive around for a few hours and then drop you off at a landfill. Sure, he will put in the hours; but are you sure that's where we want to go for 500$? If that happened, you would be stuck with the results.

 

Last edited: Feb 8, 2023

Why is this the producers fault?

Presumably you were aware he was going to charge a fee for his services?

But the question comes back to your own integrity. You're making hobbyist music - as most of us are who post on here.

Why would you spend any money at all on improving the mix of such a mediocre track?

 

I 100% agree on this! In this case I assumed only mixing was the case... in my personal opinion 500$ only for mixing is not necessarily too much. Even in this particular case I don't want to know how many hours of back and forth elapsed, which comes on top of the mixing process.