I see lot of bullshit answers in this thread, so let's clarify some facts first:

right now, latest MacOS Ventura is no better than latest Windows 11 22H2 when it comes to sw/hw optimization and reliability, both those systems need some time for devs to catch up, it's not fair to make any final judgements of either yet,
there is no Mac audio app which requires Apple Silicon, and only few (if any) audio apps make use of Apple Silicon exclusive features like Neural Engine,
it's much easier to enforce older MacOS version on a hackintosh, unlike real Macs which cannot be downgraded below version shipped with,
M1 Mac Mini (16GB ram) already struggles with iZotope RX 10 Music Rebalance preview, so calling it a good value in the end of 2022 is a joke,
Ventura runs on x86/Intel architecture no problems,
M2 (and M1) is already outperformed by casual 13th (and 12th) gen Intel i5, even if you calculate electricity costs difference, Intel remains much cheaper platform than Apple Silicon,
Apple still sells MacPro (2019) so there is quite a long lifespan still ahead,
Apple never said they quit x86 platform completely,
you can relatively easily run MacOS on PC, but you cannot at all run Windows on Apple Silicon Mac,


with all that said, back to your original question, I'll rephrase it a bit and share my opinion, and do encourage everyone to meaningful discussion:

I do think building a new PC in 2023 from a "hackintosh-friendly" parts definitely is a clever idea, it's very easy to set up multiple physical drives and dualboot MacOS and Windows, and being able to mess&learn both is a very refreshing experience,
Apple seems to be accelerating planned obsolence with more frequent Mac releases, and stubbornly refusing any user upgradeability, it's simply not a good buy for a desktop computer,

what's not so easy now, is reasonable choice of PC parts - since Apple didn't make any new Intel Macs, and old Intel components aren't sold anymore (and wouldn't be of great value in stores anymore), you should be going for 12th or 13th gen Intel - which are mixing performance and efficiency cores which MacOS (and neither older Windows 7/10 versions) cannot properly utilize, therefore you'd effectively have to disable either efficiency cores, or have all cores running at "lower" efficiency speeds, and also you couldn't utilize Intel's integrated graphics, so you'd need correct AMD graphics card since nVidia isn't at all supported either,

I've been using various hackintosh rigs for years and I always get better audio performance in MacOS on very same hardware, not sure why but that's just is (even despite I have some nice RME interfaces, which have absolutely exquisite ASIO drivers on Windows),
I stopped using my hackintosh only because my GTX1080Ti support ended with launch of Mojave, I use M1 MacMini nowadays, but its overall performance for audio tasks is no better than my old i7-5820K @4.3GHz with quad-channel DDR4 ram,

I might be building a new dualboot/hackintosh next year too, depending on how things turn out, what I know for sure is, it will have no impact on my ability to make music, and I'm in no hurry to jump into new MacOS Ventura yet at all (M1 MacMini still running Big Sur, no issues),

the conclusion is, if you're at least a bit deciding between Windows and MacOS, you need a hackintosh, Apple Silicon Mac is not an option,
and there is no reason to build a new PC from parts which wouldn't be hackintosh compatible, even if you ended up using only Windows

 

I totally agree with your last sentence : it doesn't cost you more to build an "hackintosh compatible" machine.
Apart TWO NVME on my side

 

You must remember that Apple are quite likely doing " Planned Obsolescence" at a more accelerated pace than you are used to seeing with software.

The sooner they get people like me to ditch old Mojave intel machines and buy new systems, they can focus a much bigger portion of resources at solely ARM m1 or newer processors? You shouldn't use evidence of them making wise decisions about the products and the OS as evidence they are out to "rip someone off". We are already aware of that part.

One of the machines on here I have seen give someone the absolute biggest problems with ssds and os/daw nothing else was a super nice custom machine built specifically to run cubase to his specs by a professional company that does them. I think this sort of thing is asking for problems vs cost in 2022. Economy of scale is why you can't find an in stock 16gb mini. You could split the cpu load to 2 of them with 8gb, vsl or audiogridder for about 200 bucks more.

 

Last edited: Nov 4, 2022

there's a fairly high chance Apple would ditch MacOS completely, I mean, it will take few more years to make iPadOS competitive, but from business point of view, AppStore is a golden mine in a walled garden and Apple is heavily trying to push people into it

 

My experience with 2017 i7 MacBook Pro running Mojave with internal ssd maxed, ram maxed, is absolutely nothing like what you describe about the mini. My Pro is a modified 12?core Dual Xeon Cheesegrater 5.1 2010. 128 gb ram. so 13 years old. I probably change the oil in my car more frequently than I reboot it. You can't even hear it running.

Sometimes you get what you pay for. It's easy to say you can build a pc machine and do everything, end up with same results, etc. and cheaper. This is absolutely true. At the cost of your time and your productivity. Data loss due to reinstalling windows again over and over. Hdd/SSD failure due to repeated reinstallations and formats. Expensive soundcards for better system drivers. Have at it.

That aside, I think there is some 2022 solution to the problem that is not called a hackintosh. One where the user gets the best value for the cash outlay, with the most uptime, and the least amount of insecure garbage running on their systems. Mixed boot. No. Will you be considering installing a Linux also, and then running into potential issues with secureboot/bios/UEFI? That sounds like some morphodite shit to me. Who will tech support this monstrosity, is anyone here volunteering for this?

If you play guitar, well. All that required iLok things would become severely expensive. Buy a pc and stick windows on it. Pull the cat5 cable. You can get a used MacBook or pro and stick Mojave on it very cheaply as well. Downgrading is not even a big concern. There is about no chance I would do this. I would look at my stack of cash and my workflow and see what I was going to buy.

 

Last edited: Nov 5, 2022

I would suggest a new Win 10+11 partitioned build with a 12th gen CPU. You can get into an entry level somewhat future proof rig for roughly $1000 and it will handle pretty much anything you can throw at it (DAW-wise). I love mine.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2022

Both systems are good. Some of the PC's are ridiculously priced fully decked out. Some people own both to suit the clientele but honestly, the difference other than with ProTools and Logic on MAC, in every other DAW it is negligible, if both are setup with great hardware components internally, that is.
Cubase, Studio One, Reaper and apparently so does FL - all run better on a PC supposedly. Many Ableton users tell me there is no difference whatsoever which platform is used.
So man, I do not know what to say other than these days, there is really only personal preference unless a person is dead set on using Logic.

 

If someone is thinking about building a hackintosh, does not care about portability. In this case a fair comparison is getting a decent (can be cheap if used) mac and build your dreamed windows pc next to it and connect them (as others have also mentioned above) with VEP or audiogridder etc. You get the best of both OSs at the same time.

I always read people saying Apple intentionally "plan obsolescence". Well, I'm typing this on a 2009 Macbook pro. Some new software do not install on the last officially accepted OS (El Capitan) but it's not Apple that does this shit, it's the technology that advances and goes forward. And the developers who don't want to create backward compatible new versions. I've already tried OCLP running Monterrey and I can understand its limitations, mostly due to non-metal graphics card in my old mac.
That is the main issue. Apple goes forward that inevitably causes backward compatibility issues but it's not something mean.
Just like vehicles nowadays aren't pulled by horses.
Why they limit just certain generations back for new OSs is due to hardware compatibility issues. I can run most things on Monterrey with OCLP but some things won't work because of the weak hardware (although interestingly higher res video files run smoother on Monterrey than on the old OS).

Hackintosh was meaningful when Apple depended on Intel chips and the same architecture that Windows also relied on. Although, apart from the RAM taxes at Apple, you couldn't have really gotten a windows pc – with parts at comparable quality – cheaper than the equivalent mac hardware.
What made hackintosh desirable that time was mostly due to the ram tax (using higher quality parts, fair to say) and the limited drive space in mac minis, imacs and mac laptops, when the only option for desktop form-factor was the pricey Mac Pro. Nowadays this paradigm is over. You can connect fast external drives to your Apple laptop or mini. And with the Apple Silicon chips the role of the amount of ram has become less meaningful.

 

everyone who uses hackintosh - has outdated pc configuration from 2015-2018 with outdated OSX
hackintosh always been a pain in the ass, and you should have knowledge for working in console to make your life easy
today this idea is dead or welcome to hell

 

That's a really old, slow and power consuming machine compared to modern CPUs, and it's lacking many instructions like avx that are used by modern software. For example, even a small 4 core i7-1165 notebook is faster in multi core and three times as fast in single core performance while using only 30W of power and running a whole day from a power bank.

My main reason not to buy anything Apple again is the missing ability to pull out the ssd with my data if it has to be serviced because the battery has blown up or something.

The only reason still using it is clients using Logic and that i have to exchange projects. And as you can't open projects with older versions, you have to update the whole sh*t including OS every year.

 

If you need to work on legacy Logic projects, then yes, it can make sense. If you want to start new Logic things, then just get a Mac.

 

I have a 32 core threadripper hackintosh that's been running smoothly for the past 2 years. Whoever says that hackintosh is not viable are just too lazy to put the effort to make it work

 

no kidding. my MacBook pro is 5 years old and runs Mojave also. You seem to miss a point.

"I have a 32 core threadripper hackintosh that's been running smoothly for the past 2 years".

Sure. If you need to run windows to not pay for software you could afford. You can do anything you want if you are not trying to do it on the cheap. You get the benefit of additional theft of defeated ilok stuff, and the insecurity of leaving that os running online incorrectly secured, ever in exchange for this.

You like to play with VM to get them both open at once? Total Hardware cost of your modern machine? UVI plugins aside. I'd like to see what your threadripper prices out against 2 m1s running simultaneously like. I'm not lazy, I can just do math. You know your 2 yr old machine dollar for dollar will get smoked by the 2x m1s. 32 cores still means only 1 where we count. And how many years did your last custom build run for, as well.

 

Last edited: Nov 5, 2022

That is a possibility, and who knows. However a big amount of Apple's high end revenue still comes from research and connected structures and the deals they have with educational institutions. That part is heavily reliant on the the Unix underpinnings of Darwin. If iOS becomes the standard OS it means that *Nix opensource systems as desktop front ends are usable enough that the premiums in networking and usability that makes one choose MacOS are no longer worth it.

Time will tell, but MacOS without BSD, *Nix networking at the OS level and *Nix policies isn't an interesting proposition for me and many others I know. It becomes no different to Win(X) box with a different paradigm even though there would still be some value to the stability and things like core-audio with composite device linking etc... I am not certain that it would be enough.

 

i use computers as old as 1992 in a mixing context, they get cooler with age

 

So true.

 

That's the spirit of the thread. Everyone should just make do with what they can afford. At least we can all agree that Mac OS is the superior option in this thread. It's the only reason to even install it on pc hardware. If you think you can custom outbuild apple and make a better pc based machine than an m1 for under 700 bucks; have fun. We both know you cannot.

They suck for Kali. But.. you'll never have that issue either.

So I just see some windows users afraid to wipe the partition with the Umbilical System.

 

Last edited: Nov 6, 2022

tbh a 1992 macinosh quadra 950 with powerpc pds upgrade and pro tools iii nubus tdm hardware expansion chassis is about the most expensive daw you can run ;)

 

the g clone I was using PT/Opcode Vision on OS9 on was like this also. Apogee Ad8k's, tdm/Amp farm cards and so on. It was slow as hell even compared with a Roland VS2480. Nostalgic. I'd rather staple my pecker to my leg. Sad to hear you also got the shaft on this deal with Digidesign though. But it turns out apple weren't the Real Crooks, doesn't it? Yosemite Chassis? Nah, let's not support this thing and make people buy stuff allllll over again. But they did this in 1996 or 97. I forget. Hello, Digital Performer 2.5. But Apple certainly do not care about External Hardware Manufacturers. Access call them up to get a new whatever, and they say "What Department's Answering Service were you trying to reach? Press 2". I do not mean the customer/end user.

So you are an old salt type computer expert. This is good. Simply build us a PC faster than an m1 for 700 bucks. Running current latest MacOS. Mojave even better. Do you need Windows still installed so you remember how to boot to a MacOS? Otherwise just Kali please. You can use qtparted or gparted to handle all that. We're maybe a little both trolling, but you could at least get your story straight. lol. The day you setup this machine for under 700 at m1 speed (2022), you will build it at a factory in Fantasy Land. Is it time for your daily reboot on the pc you use now? Next, an episode of " I can't figure out how to open it"? Or perhaps a cliffhanger, like "I still cannot get the Alfa to inject" ? Maybe you should just go Mix something. Maybe even make funny pictures about people who don't know what they are doing. Start with the mirror.

 

Last edited: Nov 6, 2022

admittedly don't know much about windows but have been using windows laptops for the past 12+ years just for dicking around online. but i tell you what, one time windows finder or explorer or whateverthefukkitscalled crashed on me and when i rebooted 80+ gb's of files just evaporated. that's something i never knew a mac to do... and which is why i only barely trust windows to dick around online and nothing else, not even for the right time of day.

 

Last edited: Nov 7, 2022