The constraints on time & budgets have closed the gap between analogue and ITB. Plugins are that good now there's simply no excuse to not use them liberally in tracking, mixing & mastering. Analogue and valve/tube amps fall into the same category. Those who have spent their life on them solely swear by them and will argue the case for them. This I can understand having spent thousands and investing much in them. But it's historical now. The convenience, the 95-97% closeness of the digital counterparts, renders all arguments for them as nothing more than pure nostalgia.

 

Take ANY decent A-B comparison and everything SOUND WISE is moot.
Proof (and many more) are HERE :

And YES i preferred Helix to the real amp (too compressed to my taste) too (like many).
I guessed the real amp just behind ... thinking it was the Helix

If you want the FEEL of a real "amp in the room" (feedback and more), you can always use a real cab and solid state amp.
And send an IR to the FOH.

Trust me : it is going to kick your a**, on stage and at home.
At ANY level.

As a side note, apart buying a Trainwerk, chasing YOUR tone is going to be easier on profilers (Kemper, QC, ToneX, Mooer MNRS Ge Labs GE200+ ...) OR modelers (my fav for now is Helix ... because i don't like Axe FX high gain amps).

Here is something impossible to reproduce with sims, even with real cab

At 1:16 .. magic feedback at low volume

 

Last edited: Nov 2, 2022

I'm sure that with A.I. it is not a case of if but when.

 

Got a pair of Electro-Voice EKX-15P powered speakers and hooked up my Headrush MX-5.
Standing in front, I got feedback like a guitar amp.
But I don't get the 10 minute sustain of the fundamental note or chord like I do standing in front of my EVH Iconic combo amp.
Feedback is fine, but 10 minutes of fundamental sustain is mind-blowing in comparison.
I'll trade in my MX-5 for a sim that does that (if ever).

 

I give amp modeling 3 more years to be indistinguishable from the real thing in every way!

 

Last edited: Nov 3, 2022

Sound wise, it is ALREADY done for years.
See my previous post.

Another proof :

For feel, feedback, sustain ... try sims with a real cab with solid state (like said previously).

For the last magic drop, use a REAL loud all tube amp like Plexi 50, Dumble, Trainwreck, VOX handwired ...

 

Last edited: Nov 3, 2022

Imho ToneX and others are being judged the wrong way here. You cannot compare ToneX, Kempers or any other ampsim, digital counterpart, to playing your live amp in a room. Instead, compare your live amp mic'd up, into a fine pre-amp recorded into your DAW. For that is the Tone all these simulators are giving and the only way for fair comparisons to be made as to whether they sound like the real thing.
Plus don't forget, you're playing your real amp in a room versus digital counterpart through PC speakers, monitors, headphones, how on Earth could that sound like the real amp?
ToneX is damn good, like many others, but you must judge it fairly and realistically. It will only get better and better when high quality captures become available for it just as Kemper did.

 

@ThorntonQ
"Amp in the room" vs MICed cab still running for decades.

That's why i said : PLAY sims with a REAL cab and a solid state amplifier.
And the difference between real VS sims will disappear.

There are even FRLR speakers like F12M-150 to keep speakers "variety".

If not, EXPLAIN me why ppl playing for decades on all tubes switched to digital ?
Like Megadeth tour on Quad Cortex ? They have the money and guitar tech to use real amps ...

 

about Megadeth : I always found their sound "digital" and so QC sound (to me).

 

Once got a loan of the Kemper power kabinet for my Kemper. Man that thing was sweet, but at nearly $600 it was still cheaper to go straight to FOH. And yes, the difference between "real" v digital became irrelevant.

 

Anyone using it on Windows 7?

 

The only decent real amp that I've owned was a Mesa Boogie MK III 100 watt combo. I was too much of a novice at the time to use it to it's full potential. Weight wise carrying it almost broke my back. If I was to buy a real amp again it would either be a Marshall Mini Silver Jubilee 2525H or a Orange MKIII Rockerverb head. Both can be bought at reasonable second hand prices here in the UK. But a part of me wants to hang on for the next modeling breakthrough.

The problem with plugins and modeling amps if that they can take up a lot of time to learn how to use them properly. I was just starting to get some great tones out of my FM3 before it broke and I sent it back. I have an HX Stomp, but I am yet to master tweaking it. To me the main advantage of real amps is their simplicity. Though I guess that not having much cash will force me to persevere with Tonex and Amplitude 5.

 

Yes 100% agree.
What I like most with ToneX is when I'm playing with headphones !

 

@Davman
Fractal modeling is even more complex than Line6 ... witch is already complex.

Some other solutions are less "tweakable", like Kemper, QC or Mooer GE200+
Because they are profile based.

Try the free GE Labs app on ios if you can, THU Rig Player ... or ToneX
There is almost nothing to tweak ... on the positive side.

 

Would LOVE to see your cleaned pack of Mooer MRNS samples. Thanks un advance

 

It is done here today
https://audiosex.pro/threads/mooer-...e300-ge-labs-big-thread-with-free-pack.67523/

 

Agree..in Mooer Studio there are lots of testing profiles that clutter the whole forum.
Did you try Avrusci's samples?.. Some of his profiles are quite good...others quite digital...

 

I’m back to the original db shipped with the product 1,000 something. In the meantime there’s a graphic preset for all you amp sim lovers

 

Yes i tested most high gain from Max Avrusci ... and gone back to Anthony Class only

We can talk about this here now :
https://audiosex.pro/threads/mooer-...e300-ge-labs-big-thread-with-free-pack.67523/

 

40 years old guitar player here. I have been following the guitar world from the bean shaped red POD. I can easliy say things have changed. just like the tube TVs and radios, tube amps are nostalgia or a matter of taste now. They are not a must for professional sound. It is acturally good news. Even if they sound good it requires a lot of exp and effort to put them right in mix. But with software you are free from that hussle and get instant miked, eq ed and compressed sound in your mix. What more? If you are after the feeling of live playing, you can still keep a 5 - 20 watts small amp in your house. But never make the mistake of comparing the feeling of live playing with a software. To be fair, put your amp in a sealed cabinet, mic it and listen it from your 6 inc monitors. Then it will be a fair comparison and ı am 100 percent sure you ll hate your live amp as much as you hate your software in this scnerio. Not feeling the airpressure and playing in low listenin levels take away so much from the feel and percieved sound. It is just an illussion.