Hi ppl

I won't ask you what models I need , it's not the good section for that but i have a hmm workflow question .

I made a mistake to compose music with studio headphone ONLY.
the result is good but only with headphones ( and maybe only with these neutral headphone)
my music sounds bad on speakers (computer's or audio device's)
I believe it's because i don't do premastering/mixing step ( no eq, no compressor ... )

why not?
1) I am not very good at it, maybe the only thing i can do is to clean the Eqs with high and low pass filters
2) but for that, we need to hear the sound in a room no? i don't think headphone is good for mastering

so here a question, which finally brings the hardware choice :

Knowing that i don't have a room respecting studio situations for mastering ( it's my bedroom)
AND i use a poor laptop ( no specific soundcard )
isn't it silly to get great monitoring speakers ? the sounds I would hear will be affected by my room space( furniture ... )
It wouldn't be like having a ferrari with a poor engine ?

So maybe i should just get cheap monitoring speakers (like 150 euros) which will always be better than headphone for the mastering step

what do u think ?

 

hi Xsze

lol yes i got your point of view
I guess middle class would mean a price around 400

When i say silly it's because I thought like that :
I am photographer and
Adjusting color tones on an image with a no calibrated monitor it's silly ( making changes from an altered vision )
so i was thinking, pre-mastering with a sound which we know is altered by the bad room won't give great result

Understand my newbie point of view :p

 

thanks for your advice

 

I have some "normal" lower-middle-priced speakers, these are good and I believe the best for me I could get for the money. Why did I buy those, what where the criterias? Well like you I dont have a proper room, nor the opportunity to change that. So I wanna go with those kind of allrounder-speakers. Some speakers requiere a very specific setup and workspace, they work great for a low price, but only if the circumstances are right. So look for speakers in your price class, read reviews. YOu can always ask here for opinions on specific speakers, sometimes it makes sense to get the opinion of normal users. Always keep in mind reviewers properly have a good setup to listen to the speakers...
I got the impression that bedroom- or hobby-producers very very rarely use the top-of-the-notch speakers. I mean even mastering-studios mainly use their 5- and 8-inch monitors, instead of these mega-speakers (these are mainly to impress clients). Also keep in mind working with speakers and mixing on them needs time. You learn to use them. So 1000€ speakers wouldnt make much sense, because you would properly be able to apprieciate them in a few years, but not now.
So my tip is, buy something decent, some allrounder speakers for a fair price. like 200-400€ maybe? In that price range you can already get some good ones.

To the Laptop-thing: Do you wanna make music on the laptop forever? Think in the future, you'll most likely buy a PC sometime. So dont limit your options to your present situation, always keep in mind what you wanna change next.

Oh and: You will learn mixing, its a process, not something you saw in a tutorial and then you can do it.

 

About Ferrari thing, when you use great monitors in a non-treated room it's actually like having a Ferrari filled with lowest quality fuel. Anyway, if you want actually to get something even from a decent pair of low-cost monitors you should take in consideration the blankets. Load your walls with blankets if you said you work only in your bedroom and you'll be fine. Maybe it's not aesthetic, but it's efficient. I even saw a SoundOnSound article where the owner said that some engineers would addmited that the thick blankets are a little more efficient than acoustic panels but not as aesthetic, that's why they'll never load their studio with blankets , anyway, if you want a good translation for less money, try this combo: Yamaha HS50 (the new revision, and... if you got a bigger room, then you can get the 8" HS80 version which is also more expensive) and load your walls with blankets and = voila! you got a great monitoring enviroment (I would use it myself too if i'd be in the same situation, but only temporary till i'm able to afford a better monitoring solution)

 

Exactly what I was going to write!

 

I have been using this for about 6 months and it works pretty well to compensate for crap rooms (like mine): ARC System 2.

 

Well it's not about Price, size or what ever. Monitors needs to be real monitors. Meaning, thay don't add any color to the sound and need to have a good frequenzy range which is more or less linear.

I use nEar 08 which can be used for nearfiled monitoring. Nearfiled is the speakers are just a meter or 1.5 away from the ears. If you don't drive them to heavy the room does not make the big difference. Only with lots or loudness the room makes a big difference. And in the low range. Low frequencies needs big rooms due to their wave lenghts.

So headphones is not the badest idea at all. They are nutral and have a well balanced frequency range and there are no side effects from the room. Add a VST like that:

http://www.112db.com/redline/monitor/

and you are up and running.

But there are other things to consider. I always use good meterings to visual monitor the frequency and stereofield. It can be seen if a sound is bad.

And you need to adjust your ears. I have some well done music titles which I listend to on all kind of speakers so I know how they can sound on a good system. So if I listen to them on a unknown system and hear them pleased and well I know the setup is more or less ok.

Why not drop one of the sound you are fighting with for download and let others get you some input about what they hear? Speaking about sound is always a bit well.... limited.....

Have fun!

Adrachin

 

Rather use blankets than ARC. EQ-ing the master output is not really helpful. Blankets and if you can make a cheap bass trap or better two and put them in the corners. It really helps if you have some shelf stuffed with books and CDs in the room. The bigger the shelf the better. It acts as a very good sound diffuser and it's preferable for it to be behind your listening position and absorbers in front behind the speakers and on the sides from your listening position. These are the basics of acoustics. And your goal is not to absorb the room sound completely. Just diffusion, make the bass response even and some absorption of the highs and mids will do just fine. Bass trap and diffusion are actually the most important of them all, not making an anechoic chamber out of your room. *yes* People usually think that putting some absorbers on the walls is enough and what it actually does is - not much. Well, it absorbs the highs and mids to around 500Hz at best. So the room will sound muffled and irritating. Having even bass response from 50Hz to 200Hz [bass traps actually absorb the frequencies higher than that] is the most important and for that you need a bass trap in the one or two corners, preferably on the left and right side/corner from the speakers as that's where the bass accumulates first, especially if your speakers have a bass reflex port in the back. Tame the low end response and the rest is easy. ;) ARC does nothing to correct the low end. it's impossible to do it with EQ. You simply can't have a good bass response in the room without the bass traps. Nothing else works.

You can easily find tutorials on Youtube how to make cheap and very effective bass traps with some rockwool, some wood, some fabric and some glue. ;) I recommend corner bass traps as they look more unobtrusive and even cool and they're more effective. The deeper the bass trap the more effective it is, the lower frequencies it can absorb. A great bass trap should be about 20cm deep! 10cm is considered enough, but it only goes down to ~200Hz then. About 20cm or more is a safe depth for it so it can absorb even the lowest frequencies.

Cheers!

 

You could try some speaker simluation/HTRF VSTs like http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/ , http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isonesurround/ (DL link not available), http://www.dontcrack.com/freeware/downloads.php/id/7200/software/Virtual-Studio/ (free), maybe http://wavearts.com/products/plugins/panorama/ with the headphone separation ?, or other headphone VRM/Monitoring/binaural solutions. While it's not ideal, it's probably better than nothing.

I have tried TB Isonesurround, and I usually turn the distance down. Somewhat convincing. I haven't tried TB Isone, but it should have the same algos/HRIRs, albeit with more options & control. 112dB Redline monitor is totally not convincing. I deleted it fairly quickly. Panorama I tried quickly today. Was okay-ish. I haven't tried many others.

I usually have crappy 2.5" desktop speakers for mixing, and use my OMGSOMUCHBASS headphones for monitoring bass.

 

Hearing monitor in a "basic" (not treated) room is not a so big problem and you can do very mix in such condition.
Just don't put them too loud, too far, and don't use too big speakers.
The big speakers will go a few hertz lower, but their sweet spot will be much louder too (and might show up your room weaknesses).

 

Thank you very much all for your help and advice
that was helpful and good for my knowledge

Yes i really need a pc, i say that each time I compose.... i feel the limit (cpu, memory ...)
The thing is I have two expensive hobbies : daw and photography, both are expensive :s ( i can buy a pc if i sell my macro lens lol )
but yes, my future big purchase will be a pc

I agree !

thank u, a lot of people recommend those speakers in forums!

thanku guys for advice and links, I will check it more in details

 

The thing that you have to keep in mind with any monitors in a room are these

1. No matter what or how good your monitors are, if your hearing is in bad shape? you will have a hard time mixing or mastering... PERIOD
2. Dont buy speakers based off price, buy them rather off of how "your style of music" will sound on them to you. Reference tracks when shopping for monitors can be your best friend.
3. Monitors will always fool you no matter what you buy if your room is not treated in some fashion to compensate for a monitor's output.
4. You can do a decent pre-master in headphones, provided your headphones have a very "flat response"
5. Monitors that are not flat, are pretty nice when your producing. BUT when your mixing or mastering down, you need to really invest in a set that are "flat response." That way you have less change of over or under compensating on frequencies

There are more tips but I cant think of them off the top of my head at the moment. BUT feel free to reach me if you have any more questions. Also what other members above said earlier will also help you out too.
Hit me up if you have any other questions

[email protected]

Best of luck

 

Some tips for the poor and young of us :

When you're young you'll properly move some day or another, most likely more than one time over the years. So dont buy monitors wich need a good enviroment. Some monitors will sound great for their price, but only if the room's right. You wont have that possibilty, so look for speakers which are universally usable. Allrounders would be a good word for that.

Forget room treatment! If you move you can start from the beginning, and just hanging some diffusors somewhere because it looks right doesnt make any sense. Just deal with it, you dont have the possibility.

Learn how you speakers sound. That one is easy, just listen music on them, get to know them. When you know them, you'll be able to mix with them, even if what you hear isnt 'perfect'.

A second sound system is pretty helpfull. Maybe some smaller monitors, or a hifi setup. Just something different. If you know all your sound-systems (also headphones) you can alsways compare your mix on all of them, you'll be able to find mistakes very easily.

You dont nead that big monitors. Even mastering engeniers use 5'' to 8'' inch montors, so why should you need more? Or heavy subwoofers? 8'' have enough bass, and if you absolutly need more a hifi system could do the job for heavy sub bass mixing.

Before you buy speakers, try taking a listen to them. If you're lucky you can visit a store and listen to some music you know. Maybe you have friends with studio monitors, so why dont visit them and listen to their speakers?

Yep, hope this will help somebody.

 

hs80 by yamaha, or the hs7

krk g3 6 inch are good too

I always prefered 6.5 inch monitors, standard car size speaker. Lotta people enjoy the 8 inches since they can get a little lower on frequency. But for nearfield I always thought 8 inch was a little to boomy when dealing with mid range speakers in price.