Hy Guys!

I've been curious for a while to know what "Band in a box" can do (try other styles with your own song).

A long time ago I downloaded a version, I'm not sure, I think it weighed something like 2 or 4 GB.
But there is something that did not let me try this, to be able to change my song to other genres, I do not remember if it was because it was not complete, or someone told me "you need all the styles to be able to use it"

So is this so? I need almost 140 gb to be able to test my song in other styles?

 

You can install BiaB without any of its 'realstyles' or 'realdrums'. Then it is a MIDI only package and is not large.

If you decide to (totally optionally) add some or all of its 'realstyles' or 'realdrums' then it becomes huge.

Some people will tell you its pointless without the 'real' audio. I completely disagree.

On different machines I run it in both modes described above.
The MIDI only version on mobile laptops is a fun composer assistant.
There's also a (MIDI only) package called One Man Band that can do some of what BiaB does (uses Yamaha styles).
If you decide to explore that then try both versions 10,11. (pros and cons with each version)
And another similar is VArranger.

ALL of these are really quirky software packages. Their GUI and functional designs are an antiquated mess.
But they do brilliant things!

 

Last edited: Jun 25, 2022

Thanks a lot.
If I don't care if everything sounds midi, because all he wants is to hear how it would sound in another style of music. For example to say something.
A rock song as it would sound in jazz

So you tell me that with the normal version, I can change to any style? what would be the Band in a box 2021?

The others that you name "One Man Band" and "VArranger", are other programs, right? these can also change the style "rock to jazz" "pop to funk", etc?

 

My long answer (littered with subjective biased opinions)

About BiaB.
Although it's brilliant, it's also a mess. And the history of its releases and updates is an insane mess
(for legit buyers and anyone else). It is a major undertaking to achieve a complete up to date system.
(and bizarrely, you couldn't even do that just by trying to "buy it all" today)

In 2019 (May - December) there were versions 'PG Music Band-in-a-Box 2018 2019' on sister site.
At that time a member 'littlewierdo' undertook the herculean task of assembling ALL the previously released bits and pieces into a complete version. Many people nagged and said "why can't it be simpler?" - but it just is NOT - and what littlewierdo was doing was a major achievement.

Since then further updates have been released and it has been up to each well-informed user to accommodate them as best they can - it takes effort! - you have to understand the package. See the comments in many of the subsequent releases and you'll probably find someone who has started there will be there saying "hey why am I missing stuff?".

If you're serious about tackling BiaB then I highly recommend seeing posts at sister site May 2019, July 2019, Dec 2019 and read through the extensive comments.
You need to understand how BiaB refer to styles.
All styles, and extra styles, and artiste packs, etc, (ad infinitum) are MIDI
BUT they also supplement styles using audio (always called 'real' e.g., realstyles or realdrums). These 'realstyles' (audio files) are always optional (even if some people regard them as essential) and they are what make the package large.

Your goal should be to (eventually) end up with
(1) the most up to date version of the BiaB application (but that's not urgent)
(2) ALL of the midi styles and extras packs released over decades (that's highly desirable but not easy)
(3) As many of the 'real' (audio) styles as you want (always optional)

Assembling (2) was the hardest task and littlewierdo did a really great job of helping with that.
He also did a great job with (3). But in both cases that was "up to 2019"
(bear in mind that this is/was a mess that the vendors PGMusic had never solved!)
Many people underestimated just how hard it really was to end up with a complete clean tidy package and continued to unrealistically bicker about getting just the bits they wanted. Many times, littlewierdo recommended "trust me - just download my completed clean version and start with that - it's simpler that way" - and he was always right!

So, bizarrely, in some ways the best way to get a full up to date BiaB today is still to start with a clean (complete at that time) 2019 version from littlewierdo, and then carefully manage the subsequent updates that have been released since (App, midi-styles, realstyles)
The best way to get a tidy, small, but complete MIDI-only version is almost the same. Download a littlewierdo complete pack from 2019, and then just leave out the folders containing the large 'realstyles' 'realdrums'. Then update with subsequent further MIDI packs when you know what you're doing.

If all of that sounds excessive, then you're still underestimating the work required to 'do it yourself'.
In contrast, people 'starting with' today's release and then trying to patch in the missing history face a huge nightmare.

I bet my description above is enough to deter people and leave them saying "why would I bother?",
Fair enough - but the answer is 'the end result is fabulous' - it just takes effort.

Is it worth it? what am I getting?
Simplest answer (and another recommendation) is to watch the Groove3 tutorial packs for BiaB and decide for yourself.

---

As for One Man Band and VArranger.
These are every bit as weird as BiaB but much smaller.
They are all about you providing your own chord progressions - via step time in an editable grid - or via you playing real time (with 'chord assist' functions) - and then hearing those chord progressions get played in different styles - all of which becomes exportable MIDI. So you don't provide elaborate chord voicings, you just minimally identify the chords and allow the style to generate the stylistic voicings.
The poor man's machine equivalent (nearly) of walking up to a band in any genre and shouting out chords to them and waiting to hear what they do with them - sometimes awful, sometimes inspiring.

You won't find nice Groove3 tutes for these (or any 3rd party tutes that I know of).
And the vendors (one man developers I think) have no idea how to write decent tutes.
The One Man Band site does have (poor) tutes which are a must to work through.
So again, encountering these is a huge puzzle. The best I can say about them is that when you get past the self-teaching puzzle, they are remarkably quick and easy to use for step-time and real-time work and they really are a creative delight. Absolutely well worth the effort, but no instant gratification here.
Put aside a few days to explore them and you won't be disappointed.
And you do unlock access to the world of Yamaha styles (and Roland styles too for VArranger)
Those styles libraries are a huge database of human-generated musical ideas. Many are cheesy, tacky, cringe-worthy - as you'd expect from diverse human musicians but there's still a lot more musical substance in there than you get from today's AI algorithms.

 

Last edited: Jun 25, 2022

Thank you very much for explaining all this to me! I really appreciate you taking the time on the pros and cons. I'll do that. I'll start with Band in a box, and search for the littlewierdo versions in the order you've told me. I'll also look for the Groove3 tutorials you mentioned, and if it's true, you have to be patient for such complex programs. But I have it. Thanks alot!

 

ChordPulse is another great tool for trying out new styles, or as a starter program. The internal sounds aren't great but when you load the exported midi file into a DAW and use your own sounds you can get excellent results.

 

Thanks Crinklebumps I'm going to take a look at the video. And if, as you say, the midi is the least important thing, what interests me is to see the styles to have another view of "how it would be in another genre".

 

Could be useful to you then, there are certainly enough styles to choose from.

 

I just tried it and it looks great.
I saw the video before, very well explained.
It is a pity that the program does not have to import midi.
I was reading in the comments on youtube and it says that you can edit the Styles with a notepad to create your own midi style, I'll see how it's done.
I will also take some time to study Band in a box, I guess it should be more complete and difficult too

 

JJAZZLAB
Amazed and delighted to report a discovery. I hadn't seen this before - found it an hour ago.
Can't believe I hadn't seen it before - and it looks like it might be excellent.

Somewhere between One Man Band / VArranger (using Yamaha Styles) and Band in a Box (using proprietary styles)
But this is free Open Source - and uses Yamaha styles.
I will be enthusiastically checking this out over the next few days.

https://www.jjazzlab.com/en/
https://jjazzlab.gitbook.io/user-guide/

www.youtube.com/watch?v=v80Wm6joYxs

 

I misread the name of that software. Now I have to delete my Google search history.

 

I know what you mean!
And I need to wipe off my monitor screen.

I mean so I can read better!!

 

I was about to say about this too actually .. and also there's iReal Pro which is very famous around musicians, and improvisor too (mostly for jazz) and lastly giglad.

 

Yes, please, report once you try it. You have already a long experience with BIAB so your opinion is valuable.

 

You newbie... meet the most important cleaning tool ever:

 

Maybe me being a bit dumb, but I can't see how that made your tool any cleaner.
Probably an impossible mission anyway.

 

I own BIABOX, for me it's quite helpful when you want to make a quick base composition .. my workflow now is making the base by using biabox and render my vocal mock up using synth V ..

here's an example

 

very good voice, and a catchy melody. " Whit out youuuuuu"

 

I've been trying Biab for less than an hour and I think I'm going to ask her to marry me. I just imported a midi of a melody that I had and it assigns me all the chords and when I change the style it continues to respect the melody and I can play the same melody in any style of music. Incredible. And it's full of options. I imagine everything you must be able to do with this. I'm seeing that it has a harmonic harmonizer

 

For me personally - that's 2 misses, one hit.

(1) iReal Pro:- I never really liked that very much. For one thing not available on Windows.
I did used to play around with it on an Android tablet. It's very limited in the range of styles that it offers but has access to thousands of chord sheets. So to me it always seemed more geared towards being a backing tracks device to jam over (which is nice) but not that interesting as a compositional tool. (for me a miss)

(2) Are you referring to "Impro-Visor"?
If so, I also looked at that a long time ago, didn't like it at all. Again a smallish list of proprietary style files (that's the major failing for my purposes), but I also remember thinking it was a really clunky contraption (built on Java). So, maybe unfairly - I just wrote it off as not what I'm looking for. (for me a miss)

(3) Giglad
Thanks for the tip - this one I hadn't heard of before.
And this one looks very interesting - a quick peek (so maybe unreliable comments) suggests these attractive features...

• Define your own styles in Giglad proprietary format. I know how tricky style building can be (building a Yamaha style is complicated) and at first glance this package seems to have possibly one the nicest kits I've seen so far for style building, e.g., they have some documentation for what they call their Chord Transposition Algorithm, without which you would be flying blind.
  
• Also works with Yamaha styles files (i.e., that vast database of music ideas - a key feature for me) Not obvious yet whether this package could also make adapting Yamaha styles any easier. Would be great if it could, but not optimistic about that.
• Offers a free version. A good enough version to explore the main package - but not sure yet whether the freebie version works with Yamaha styles.
• Looks like a well produced professional application

Giglad rates as one I do immediately want to further explore (for me a hit)
So thanks very much for that new info

----

Preliminary comments about JJazzLab
1) It does not make you go blind, despite rumours circulating above
2) It looks really bloody good - some impressive features.
3) But (a big point) it's entirely focussed on the step time approach of manually editing a chords grid. If you want to improvise chords and input chords in real time whilst styles are playing, and also want that real time process to be supported by elaborate chord assist functions, then JJazzLab is not the package for you. Some people won't care at all about that but for others this would be a deal breaking negative point.