Since version 6.54 Cockos secretly implemented oversampling (up to 705.6/768kHz = 16x OS for common SRs) for FX (incl VSTis) and FX chains. AFAIK, this is absolutely unique in the DAW world.

This made me very curious about how useful and audible it would be. Therefore I made a little test with a short pattern and bass and drums (only).

Here's the exact approach:

1. I made the basic sounds within the instruments incl amps and distortion (no OS available)
2. for the bass I used only one channel, for the drums I used individual outs for kick, snare, HH, tom subgroup, overhead, room, bus and an additional reverb
3. I set all levels to -1dB TP with a volume plugin in the mixer (so the Saturator (see next point) has something to deal with)
4. I used free BPB Saturator with Tube only because it produces a bunch of harmonics and thus aliasing (Tube set to 15 - 50)
5. I exported the POS without any OS, 4x OS for the Saturators only and 4x OS for Saturators and the two VSTis in 44.1kHz (DAW SR) and 16bit (realtime dithering from 32bit FP)

4x OS used close to 4x CPU for the FX and close to 5x CPU for the VSTis (goolge overclocking and cooling ).

Of course I do not tell you which file is which and since the bass uses physical modelling and the drums RRs, a nil test won't work at all.

I do have one request, please put your replies into a spoiler so not to sway anyone. The easiest way to do this and avoid formatting mistakes is to write your reply, mark your whole text and click on Insert... Spoiler, et voilà your text is within the spoiler (and then click on Reply, ofc).

Have a listen and tell us what you think (about the OS, not the mix, ofc ).

Spoiler: Annoying big window A

Spoiler: Annoying big window B

Spoiler: Annoying big window C

P. S. I hope I haven't mixed up the versions.

 

Without downloading the files and doing a proper comparaison, Bass is more bright and present in a good way in version C.

 

yet some plugins straight crash

btw I'll take a listen tomorrow, don't hurry with spoiling the results

 

I was quite happy to see Reaper implementing native oversampling myself since I couldn't accept the fact that I needed another plugin like Metaplugin to load up VSTs and effects just to oversample them. This is way more time efficient.

Spoiler: My guesses

To me it sounds like A is the brightest of the mixes, but also the most "grainy" in the top end.
That might be a sign of aliasing starting to creep in, but if I'm mistaken it's probably lack of further ear training. Still guessing this is default for now, no OS.

B and C are both similar in brightness, so those are probably the ones with OS at least present on the saturator.
Since I'm expecting most of the differences to be in the high end instead of the bass region, I noticed B sounding somewhat better defined, you might even say smooth at higher frequencies.
C on the other hand still had something slightly grainy to it, maybe a better explanation is a fight between frequencies? But it is in fact very slight so it might be imagination, who knows..

To me, B is probably OS on instruments and saturation, C is only oversampled saturation.

tl;dr A no OS, B OS on all, C OS on saturation.

 

Yes because plugin need to support the sample rate you use with oversampling if the sample rate of your plugin does not support let's say 192khz he will crash reaper, or just oversample 2 times

 

The new "brute force" oversampling feature in Reaper is useful, when using plugins that don't have oversampling implemented by the developer. But, it will just work if the plugin itself supports these higher sample rates. In the latest Dan Worral video he showcases a plugin that has a fixed sample rate at 44.khz. Reaper's oversampling will not work there. In fact, it will make it sound worse, because the oversampling lowpass filter will be incorrectly applied to the (non-oversampled material).

 

Last edited: May 9, 2022

I would really like to see how the filtering is done. As to my experience most developers besides Melda, fail to create adequate oversampling. Either there is no Oversampling at all (Blue Cat), filters are not there or where they should be, not steep enough and all kinds of stuff.

 

Last edited: May 9, 2022

Not Reaper's fault.

They do not necessarily crash. I tested some Waves pluggies at 44.1 with 8x FX OS while they only support up to 192kHz. They did not crash.

Goes without saying.

Of course.

Right, but not Reaper's fault.


Whether the plugins crash or just produce a worse sound depends on their coding.

 

Do you find that Melda plugins don´t have a proper oversampling and thus do not sound good when there's non linearities? And wich other companies should I rather avoid to use? MY ears can't tell the difference, but I don't want to put 'garbage' information in my audio files, I want them to sound the best! Can you shed a light on me? Thanks in advance

 

No, I said it the other way around. "As to my experience most developers besides Melda, fail to create adequate oversampling."

If your ears can not tell the difference, you have to measure it, because otherwise you do not know if anything's changing. I really can advise to use izotope RX or plugin doctor to check if there's adequate oversampling implemented in your plugin.
For me Melda really is top notch in this regard.

 

Last edited: May 9, 2022

Ok, so crash can happen with some plugin only, not every plugins this is interesting.
I will try all plugins I cn just to see what happens.
By the way thank you for do testing

 

I'm yet to explore new internal OS features in Reaper, but yes - definitely groundbreaking in DAW world.
Cockos went steps ahead "big name" developers like a piece of cake.

(meanwhile, Pro Tools users jumped happy when they got clip gain and mp3 exporting lol )

 

Really interesting feature, I think this has been requested for a long time, and Reaper is very forward thinking.

Spoiler

I find it hard to hear a difference, but I would think A sounds the cleanest of the all.

 

My applause to Reaper (and the whole audio industry) for pushing forward like this.
My applause and respect to No Avenger put putting hands-on experiments together.
My curses to my ears for not letting me hear any differences at all.
My thanks to two spliffs that convinced me the orchestra in B was louder than the choir in A. That's correct - right?

 

After lurking forever, I signed up to tell you:

You don't need to oversample the mix you are listening to. You need to oversample the mix you mix down. That's the one that actually counts.

You work at 48k, fine, me two. I export at 96k. So I don't really need to oversample anything. It's as if the project was running at 96k the whole time.

Everything OS at 2x. That's usually fine. You could do 192k and get 4x. I don't really bother, because my tests led me to question whether this was actually an improvement. This works on any DAW with offline processing settings, including Reaper.
'

 

If you choose 44100 project and 96000 export, it will be just all the 44100 upsampled/upconverted to 96000, equally same as you export 44100,then src to 96000. No? If no, why there is src filter quality to choose? Samples, ok, will be resampled... But vst synths, vst processing.... Need more testing, analysing, also online/offline etc

 

I missed your inquisitive threads @No Avenger , my man

Well my why, didn't know you need the grass plugin to do the test. Noa, update the test requirements!!

 

Damn, you nailed it. This is especially audible after the guitar solo at 3:96.

 

I think you're confusing two terms. Resampling and oversampling.

Oversampling is indeed resampling to higher frequency. With plugins that introduce distortion (non-linearities) you need that sample rate to fit those high frequency distortions that happen only internally. So those plugins internally oversample -> do their thing -> downsample to the DAWs frequency again

Perfect example: crazy high gain ampsim plugins. You'll find x2, x4, x8 and even x16 oversampling options in some of them

The problem is there're plugins that doesn't offer this possibility or not high enough. That's the good thing about this Reaper feature.

PS. Don't know who mentioned this but Melda plugins have all really cool and useful features: auto-gain, oversampling. I've always thought Meldaproduction's plugins are the closest to the way Reaper does things

Edited: when you say "you need to oversample the mix you mix down", mix down would be downsampling in my words. What you actually do is remove the high half of the frequencies in order to avoid aliasing and then downsample with a good interpolator (perhaps is the word you want to use instead of oversample).
So basically you're not wrong but you're mistaking the meaning of those terms

 

Last edited: May 10, 2022

Not quite. Firstly, as you probably can hear, OSing the plugins changes the sound - not really unimportant in the mixing stage. Secondly, 96kHz would only be 2x OS and this will sound different than 4x or even 8x. Thirdly, for most cases your 96kHz file will be downsampled and then you have no control over the final result. Just as examples.