This might also solve the question I have to this day......

WHY PPL KEEP saying compressor is same as turning the volume knob up and down...

This is what the vocal rider does...not the compressor........

compressor affects whatever frequencies happen to be louder than others above the threshold, it does not turn the whole signal up or down like a volume knob (Unless its make up gain of course which it does turn the whole signal up after the fact it has been compressed)

Please explain if i'm correct thinking like this

thanks

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2022

A compressor is much more than a volume rider. For starters it's a lot faster. It's also a tonal shaper. A compressor compresses (attenuates) and reacts to, and thus colors/saturates, lower frequencies more than higher frequencies, since lower frequencies have more energy to trigger the circuit. Hence why sibilance most often is exxagerated when compressed hard, and why dynamic mics are more forgiving when compressed hard.
A compressor only attenuates, and the make-up gain is to compensate for the attenuation.
One reason why the LA2A is the holy grail of vocal compression is its slow attack (opto) compression that also adds pleasant musical saturation. Many people use a FET compressor like the 1176 to round the loudest peaks off and then going into the LA2A. The result can be quite magical (I have the fortune to work with both hardware compressors).

Also, here's the kicker, for much more control:

3) volume automation into said compressors (compressors in "post-fader mode).

 

Last edited: Apr 26, 2022

No a compressor moves the whole signal up and down too, unless it is a multiband compressor. Vocalrider tries (and often succeeds) to mimic an engineer riding the fader. A compressor is time constant (as set by the user). That sounds different sometimes, sometimes the same. I use both. If I must choose, a compressor cause I can do fader rides myself and not compress by hand.
A hardware compressor might have mojo and the software clones too.
If you set a compressor fast enough attack and release (sub 20ms or so) it will also distort low freqs, but because the attentuation speed is in the audio domain then.

 

It depends on the vocal. Usually I use compression and automate the fader like ye olde days. But for some vocals riding (actually, in my case Dynaride) works pretty well. Still with compression though. So I reject the premise.

 

The premise that most people don't really understand compression?

 

I usually EQ into a colored type compressor depending on source, EQ again if necessary, and do the rides by hand, pre or post any other fx as desired as I don't trust those "Vocal Riders" as they can't read my mind or intent. Just take the extra few minutes and get what YOU want.

 

What does the manufacturer say ?

Waves - Voval Rider
A true timesaver, this plugin adjusts your vocal levels automatically, saving you the need to draw each level change in your DAW or manually ride faders. All you need to do is set the target range of the vocal level in relation to the rest of the mix. Then, Vocal Rider compensates for all deviations from the target, intelligently raising or lowering the vocal gain, instantly.

And unlike compression, Vocal Rider adds absolutely no coloring to the vocal track. Vocal Rider also has a Live component with an exclusive Spill control to differentiate the vocal from background instrumentation and noise, for better tracking and performance.

- Keep steady vocal & dialog levels automatically
- Save time by automating the vocal riding part of the mixing process
- Write the automatic riding to an automation track for fine tuning
- Real-Time means no latency and no pre-scan needed
- Dedicated Vocal Rider Live component

 

Thanks for the tip for Dynaride

 

Do you understand that a compressor only lowers down only whats above the threshold, thats not the whole signal

it does not lower the whole signal down unless u set the threshold to minus infinity and i'm not even sure if it works like that then......do i make sense

I can't understand why u say a comrpessor moves the WHOLE signal down.........

regarding moving the whole signal UP...yes when its make up gain.....After the fact it has been compressed

but make up gain has nothing to do with compression...its just a setting to help the whole signal become louder....like a volume knob would

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2022

Yes only above threshold of course, but then (above) it attenuates the whole signal, not certain freqs.
If you load a fabfilter compressor, they have a nice graph that shows you what is happening real time. Both the attenuation and the result (and pre too).

 

lets say you have a signal that covers all frequencies......from 0-20K

if this signal has a loud peak at 5K.....and you set the threshold to lower that peak only......only that peak will be reduced

using the term "whole signal" means u are lowering all frequencies from 0-20K at the same time but this only depends on where u have set the threshold

some of those frequencies will remain unaffected depending on where the threshold is

this is my understanding

 

No, lets say there is a peak of 1s witha big 5khz component, then the whole 1s all freqs will be lower, not just 5k. Yes the 5k peak triggers the compressor.
Thats why you get pumping in the high freqs if the bass drum hits the compressor. It also lowers the hi freqs. Sometimes that is desirable (in EDM it can be), mostly not.

 

if this is the case,

then why are only the louder parts becoming more quiet....(and the quiet parts remain unaffected) - this is assuming you have set the threshold right above the quiet parts

which is mainly what compression does so that you have a less dynamic waveform

this proves that only the loud parts are reduced, not the whole signal


ok i'm confused (basically right now i'm thinking a drum loop waveform or vocal for example as a whole - having a explained the above) i'm not talking about just an instance of a second which i can't bother to think about right now

 

Dude...
The waveform gets reduced in this part where it goes above the threshold and therefore every frequency that this waveform contains get's reduced as well. (Full band comp)
In a full range comp you can not differ between frequencies and say "only my bass gets reduced because it's the loudest part" no, it's only the trigger.

In a multiband comp, only the selected frequency band in the waveform gets reduced.

 

Last edited: Apr 26, 2022

The premise that I must choose one or the other

 

do you agree that whats below the threshold remains unaffected? therefore only whatever frequencies are above the threshold are affected/compressed

 

And the best the riders cab do is get you close. They can't compensate for your *perception* of a proper vocal level on certain types of sounds and consonants, the context of the track, irregularities in the track may fool it... like I said in some cases it helps a lot but at the end of the day you have to get off your ass and just move a (virtual) fader. People gave mixed vocals on pop music for 80 years without a riding plugin.

 

No, I agree with that everything above the threshold in the Waveform at a specified time gets reduced which is every frequency in this waveform at this specified time.
And if the waveform does not move above this threshold, nothing happens.
The db shown in the waveform at a specific time, is the frequency with the highest db in your spectrum at this time.

Take a percussive instrument and apply a compressor with strong settings. Then look what happens in the frequency spectrum. Everything moves down the exact same db.

 

Last edited: Apr 26, 2022

compressor squashes dynamics, rider evens out dynamics, with enough lookahead, compressor can be transparent,

LUFS based automation envelope generation is most natural anyway:

 

i work with a lot of dynamic vocal recordings in genres / tracks where those wide performance dynamics aren't always called for in the final mix. in those instances i'll usually reach for vocal rider first to help me minimize the performance dynamics a bit, allowing me to be less heavy handed with compression later on. 99% of the time i still do song specific manual automation towards the end of the process, either riding a fader or adjusting words / phrases as need be