My frustration is kind of killing me right now (not really). And I know that more than one person can relate to this. Let me explain...

1) I've been mixing and mastering for the past 4-5 years. I'm happy with my mixes right now, to the point where I mix & master other people's stuff for money. This is basically my only source of income at the moment.

2) I've seen at least 100+ hours of mixing and mastering tutorials from very good sites (Mix with The Masters, MyMixLab, Groove3. etc). I've studied the arts of mxing and mastering for years because I am really passionate about it.

So with that being said, this is my issue. I can get my mixes to sound good but no matter how much saturation/compression I add, I can't get them to sound loud as the competition.

Other tracks in the urban and electronic genres (where you would expect loudness) get up to -7, -8 LUFS. My tracks can get up to -9 LUFS but they sound more squashed.

P.D: I'm using a clipper to trim around 2dB then two limiters (Oxford and Pro L2 for true peaking at -0,3dBFS)

What am I doing wrong?

 

To achieve a loud mix:

Is it a better practice to add serial saturation/distortion on every track (if convenient ofc) only for the harmonics & then recover the desired punch with a transient shaper?

OR

Is it a better practice to just keep the sustain from the saturation/distortion and take advantage from the headroom we just gained?

 

Last edited: Apr 26, 2022

I mix at -10 LUFS my dance music productions (and a dynamic range of about 6 dBs). It’s a child’s play to lift them at mastering literally anywhere.

You probably don’t get good mixes and there is a big chance you’re doing everything right.

There are 2 ways to get a loud final master: either get a loud mix, either ask for stems and mix and master them.

 

IMHO Road to achieve a good mix and a loud mix at the same time:

1. a good arrangement: if you have tracks fighting in the frequency spectrum you can't make them heard at the same time. so you must choose one or re-arrange those tracks to different frequencies by either transposing them to a different octave or re-writing their line.

2. a good recording: if you have standing waves, room modes, unwanted reverbs, echoes or something you don't want to be heard in your tracks, or noise or something similar you can't make those tracks to be heard clearly so you will end up pushing their fader. this makes your mix worse.

3. a good mix: less is more. most of the time you'll only need a three band eq, a fet and an optical comp and a reverb and a delay only. use those weapons in their right places.

 

good room. good monitors. good headphones. maybe some headphone correction software.

Missing any of these? And then appropriate reference tracks for whatever you are making.

One other question, but how long have you been working in Logic Pro?

 

Last edited: Apr 26, 2022

Free yourself from the curse of LUFS. It kills your dynamic range and never makes good mastering. less is more

 

So I'm guessing you're making electronic/pop/rock stuff, right? If you want to get loud you essentially have to learn HOW to clip APPROPRIATELY (source material, arrangement, it all goes in there). And that's it. Have you seen a project session from Skrillex? Limiters and Clippers ALL over the mix. I've linked a decent method so you can start learning how to clip shit.

(By the way, I'm not saying getting extra fucking loud is cool or is bad, just giving some advice related to what OP is seeking)

 

Im currently mixing with a pair of ATH-M50s. My room is treated but only half of it so I only check for balance with a pair of Focal Alpha 80. I'm using Sonarworks ID for headphone correction. I know them pretty well so I suppose that should be enough.

 

I wish I could free myself from that but I want to be competitive and in the end people want it louder. If the rest of mixing/mastering engineers can do it, eventually, I will be able to do it.

 

Even if you shouldn't do it, you should be able to figure out how to do it if you want.

How long have you been using Logic?

 

If you want stupid high loudness levels, a good place to start is by analyzing loud masters (with actual analyzers) an seeing where each element falls in terms of level, frequency, dynamics and interaction between stuff in the same range, you may find some interesting info there. One of those, for example, is that there are a few frequency ballances that are common to specific genres (kind of what Izotope's Tonal balance control and the like try to show), and there's reason for that, they work, but for them to work as they should, the whole production needs to aim to that from as early as possible.

So it's not just about it sounding good, but about about finding the "right type of good" that lets you achieve that loudness, and you can only do so much for that at the mastering stage alone.

 

Last edited: Apr 26, 2022

For 6-7 years. I use 3rd party plugins for mastering even for metering. Just preference, nothing wrong with native plugins imho. Why?

 

I agree with your agument, but it also looks like anyone else can easily get to -7 LUFS (and still sound loud) no matter what tone they implement. I've heard bright mixes get to -7 LUFS and darker mixes get to -6 LUFS. That has me a little confused.

To wrap up what I'm trying to say: It looks like besides the amount of compression, you should be able to get to -7 LUFS with any tonal balance you like. I just can't no matter what.

 

The more I push limiter myself, the squashed/muffled sound becomes. Assuming you use reference tracks, In Voxengo span, did you check where the kick and low bass are? Depending on the genre, in progressive house for example they should sit 3-6 db apart from each other.

 

How did you get to this point? Do you contact the people online or in real life, and it is with a site like Fiverr or some other way?

 

The problem is surely in the mixing process, not the master.

Hard clip every sounds (at least everything that got some transient/peak, even the one you don't necessary think about for transient, like melodic elements). Do it at a level that you can berely ear it, it shouldn't destroy the sound, but it's a little sacrifice you have to make to be loud.
Also, use lot of sidechain, not for the pumping effect, but more for the space it provide, small sidechain, multiband sidechain, so each time your main drum (kick/snare) hit, they are alone.

A very important thing is sound selection also, cause masking issues, phase issues, and clashing transient can really make a difference when you want to reach a certain level. Everything need to have a purpose and a place that make sence with other sounds (I know it's a basic thing to say, but lot of sound sometime could sound way louder with just a different kick or a better relationship between kick and bass).

If you mix correctly, just a little hard clipper on the master for those added peaks, and a maximizer/limiter to get to your target should be enough.

Compression can be use, but only for the groove and movement it can give, not for loudness. If you got everything right with your mix, you can get as loud as -3LUFS (not that you should want that, but if you can do that, then -6 is really easy and will sound natural)

 

Youre kinda lacking knowledge about dynmaics. I mean its kinda simple, you "just" need to learn what does makes a mix really loud.
ppl in here already mentioned it. Could be the mix.

I produce & master my own stuff and i already get really easy -6 LUFS without ANY effects on the master besides a Limiter (Gain reduction -1/-3dB short peaks).

So you should learn how to use a Multibandcompressor and then youre good.

And to be honest nowadays its kinda easy. You have so many tools that help you analyse a reference song. So compare the dynamics, the tonal balance, the frequencys <

 

Yes, for example in pop genres (or pop sounding songs) the vocals are the loudest instrument in the mix.
In techno and house the kick is the loudest while the clap and hats are around 2 or 3 dBs below the kick.

The tone factor is also very important. For example: the kick should use as little bass as possible without compromising it's character too much of course, just so it's easier to achieve loudness (As bass frequencies take more headroom in order to be heard).

 

This is pure gold, makes a lot of sense now! Thanks mate.

 

I have an IG page with mastering & mixing tips where I talk about what I know (clearly not about loudness lol) so a lot of clients come from there. I also have friends who have mentioned me to their other producer friends.

Tried fiverr but I don't think it's worth it (you find mix & mastering engineers as low as $15, but I don't think my work should be THAT cheap)