Are there better modded marshall IRs then Howard Benson modded plexi tones?,
the Cab is super tight, I compared it to Neural DSP Omega, Nameless, Softube etc etc and the closest sim I cud find this tight was the NDSP Soldano but its not a Marshall its Soldano., the NDP nameless is loose compared to Howard Benson which sounds great with a DS1...bt im now looking for Cabs like this IRs, anyone know how to get the same results and turn up some more gain with the tightness?

 

Last edited: Apr 30, 2022

Softube has the best Marshalls.
But one can take Amplitube as well.
Or STL. Or Neural DSP.

 

Last edited: Apr 15, 2022

I use Neural Cali for clean plexi-ish tone

 

Neural DSP or THU Rig Player

And read this whole thread :
https://audiosex.pro/threads/what-is-your-favorite-virtual-guitar-amp-simulator-plugin.64376/

 

Me too, especially and the eventide blackhole verb they added, its a memory hog though.
But IRs for cabs can be loaded directly inside NDSP.,
Everything else i know of depends on if your plug can by pass the cab section to then load other IRs using a 3rd party plugin.

If you use the took a ir cab (example Marshall 4x12 the blue celestians) bypassed the cabs in Cali then tried the same with softube heads you can barely tell which amp your using as they sound 90% identical, only the amps behavior (response to your pickups/gate) tell them apart

 

I was talking about cab IRs,
Example: the howard benson by stl tones has the tightest moded marshall 4x12 cab IR,
If you use this ir with a softube plexi or dspn nameless 90% of the sound will be the howard benson stl tones plug apart gates and gain noise.

Guitar amp tones come from the cabinet not the guitar or head which are roughly 10% with sims and only depend on the player and behavior state of the amps gain/gate etc as to real amps that are roughly 45%..

the closest to a real amp are the softube Marshall heads, they behave allot alike real heads which vacuum and amplify tones from guitar pick ups, dynamics like your picking, you cant tell what crescendo is with most sims apart softube marshall heads and maybe the ndsp cali clean.

so the verdict here with sim amps/ heads (not cabs) is that amateur players today have no idea how to get high gain out if a marshall using the right pedals and they are deceived by 25 different imitations of already tweaked heads that are supposed to sound like Mike Fortin marshall mods or soldano/slash/hendrix etc etc

The reality is that the behavior of a amplifier should depend on the player/pick up types but most sims tweaked to sound like a brand cant do this, but on the other hand you can using the marshalls by softube, the correct pedals and correct IR cabs., question is where do you get the correct irs,

i hear many claiming that Jens Bogren has the best cab irs and there are a few more, softube seems to of nailed the heads but positive grid nailed the cab section., some now argue that softubes celestian shaper helps get close to real cabs or stl hb tight ones but i ask where to find good green back marshall 4x12 irs cause not all these plug ins allow by passing heads or loading 3rd party ir

 

You are correct in some cases and also wrong in some cases.
First of all a Marshall cab IR that has the same speakers and mics as the STL will probably sound very similar to the STL IR.
But the mic needs to be placed on the same place.
Secondly you can very easely EQ the other IR to sound very similar.
And no the guitar tone doesnt come from the cab it is tons variables
The guitar, the pickups, the strings, the amp setting, the cab, the speaker oh and even the instrument cable between your guitar and amp can sound very different from eachother best sound i have got is with an tv antenna cable.
Also where you stand in front of your amp is important go 3 meters to the left and it will sound different than in front of the cab.

When it comes to IR's most vendors and also ampsim makers offers alot of different IR's

You never said WHICH IR you said is the tightest.
And since you said amatures blabla you must concider yourself as a pro.

And when it comes to IR's you ALWAYS need to tweak the amp to fit the cab IR sure you can go thrue tons of IR's using the same setting on the amp until you are happy but you can also choose a common mic combo like SM57 & Royer 121 and then tweak the amp until you happy.

If you are a pro i guess you have tried many different cabs with the same amp in a studio and then you know that you always have to adjust the setting on the amp for every new cab you try the same is true when you try new IR's.

But with IR you have the luxury to have tons of ready made mic captures of many different mics also in some cases the same cab (as the cab itself has an impact on the overall tone) but with different speakers (also a big part of the overall tone is the speaker played in or new? Etc etc)

I dont think Softubes Marshall sounds more real than Mercuriall Spark or Helix or some other Marshall ampsims.
I say the most sonically realistic ampsim i ever tried is the Helix it always sound spot on when you hear it against the real deal you cant say that for most other ampsims.

 

Last edited: Apr 16, 2022

Many people confuse Pro with someone who does something good, pro is not something you do good, its something you do for work, that works and you have no time for anything getting in the way., if your job is to be a guitar tech then your responsible to assure all the gear is functional and ready, including what gear works or needs repair and yes there are many young students who never touched a plexi or Twin to compare tubed amps to solid state sim imitations.

I teach audio in a Uni now but the reason I am asking about IRs is because its only very recently that hardware dependant "high res" audio software has become native and running on 24++ bit DAWs, especially with M1 Apple chips, so this whole guitar sim world is still in the early stages cause the only companies who have come close to the behaviour of amps is bluecats and softube (with celestial shaper), I actually found a way to get the same feedback response as with a 12 inch cone via my 8inch studio monitors using Softube's plugs!

So take for example; Neural DSP Soldano or Omega sims, they are the tightest gated high gain amps, but if you bypass their cabs and try softube 4x12 forget it, you get low end flab, etc, total mismatches....but try Celestion shaper by softube, Jens Brogan's IRs or STL, they are higher res dedicated IRs and allow more control.., I am just asking for more to see where all this has gone.

As for guitar tone its def more of the Cab IR in computers, sustain and all are before it so with out confusing playing style with tone watch these videos cause you cant hear you playing style though a sim as you can with a real amp.

Mercuriall Spark, Helix and especially IK multimedia all have the solid-state mimic tones but do not behave like the real amp which respond more to your pick ups, your guitar picking, even pinch harmonics and bomb dives that growl..
-feedback example

-listen to the softube silver Jubilee growl this guy got here

Other plugs do not behave like real amps, adding decent IRs at the least can improve any solid state type imitation amp sims, then you can get that nice strut picking feel or a low end chug etc

 

Last edited: Apr 19, 2022

I have been using Neural DSP sims for the past couple years or so, but lately ML Sound Labs has been easily becoming my goto amp sims, for any sort of tone. The ML800 has killer Marshall tones, and for heavier stuff like a MESA tone for example, their Roots sim is awesome. Highly recommend. Their IR's are really good.

 

Last edited: Apr 20, 2022

Hello My Cunt,
I love Ownhammer, ML Sound Labs, Celestion, Vallhallir, York Audio & Dr. Bonkers. These are my go to brands for IR's.

Redwirez, Urgitone & Seacows IR's are worth checking out too. I also like 3 Sigma Audio, Bogren Digital, Joey Sturgis, Lancaster & Neural IR's. Within those brands I like are Peavey, Mesa-Boogie, Marshall & ENGL the most. Having said that I've been messing with some Bogner & Soldano lately and have been loving those as I discover them.

I feel like this needs to be said as well; lurk around guitar forums & seek out free IR packs through various search engines. You will be blown away at the tones you can pull out of free IR packs. This can be said for free amp sims as well!

 

I've heard somewhere in the internet, Mike Plotnikof said that one of the cab used in the Tonality plugin are Wizard 4x12 cab, and that's his main cab for years.

For IR, I can't recommend enough for ML Sound Lab and York Audio. I've been spend $$$ for IR. Ownhammer, Dr Bonker, Redwirez, and Valhallir are decent but none better than two I've mentioned before. I would not recommend Lancaster, 3 Sigma, Bogren, JST, or any "mix ready" IR.

I hope it will save your time and money for searching good IR.

 

Oh cool, I didn't know that! I've also spent a ton of time and money searching, collecting and buying all sorts of IR packs over the years. ML Sound Lab and York Audio are definite winners. I kind of like raw and mix ready IR's alike, just for different reasons. You just arrive at the destination at different times depending on what cab you choose.

The raw IR's definitely sit in the mix better and are way more mold-able than the mix ready ones but knowing that it just forces you to do less to it with less options to steer it onto your direction. I do mostly agree with you though. Same thing with processed drum hits VS raw ones when choosing sample packs.

 

I cant thank you enough for your time here, I like to ask a few questions ...

So much hype about the Jens Bogren stuff, I cant even demo them, have you and what was your experience with his Rhythm IRs (question 1)

Im after the tight Marshall plexi sound like the STL Howard Benson, if the wizard 4x12 IR is what they used where can I get them? (question 2)

 

Last edited: Apr 22, 2022

I agree. Some of those mix ready IRs works for some people, but it's just not my cup a tea. I have a friend that love Bogren (and he recommend this to me) and he made couple of good sounding songs with it. He's a preset guy. The drums and bass are preset and/or mix ready type of sound. As for me, I love produce and design my own drums, bass, and playing with eq, comp, etc, and ML Sound Lab and York Audio really takes eq really well.

At the end of the day, all we need to do is makes some good and inspiring music, no matter what it takes. Presets, mix ready, or auto tune is just a tool.

 

Bogren definitely sounds better than other mix ready IR. It comes with 27 IR in different sample rate. Most of them are unusable, some are muddy, some fizzy, and it's almost impossible to fix it with eq. Because technically, you're just eq'ing the already eq'd IR.

Here's I quick record some generic metal core riffs. Please put the sloppy performances aside. I haven't warming up, and it's one take on each track.
Signal chain: Schecter JL7 with EMG 57-7 -> Ibanez TS-9 -> EVH 5150 III 50W -> Suhr Reactive loadbox -> DAW

First clip is Bogren Digital. I pick one with the name "NorthernComfortEQ2" cause I thought it sounds the best with particular mix.


Sounds good, right? But don't stop there.

Here's the same performance with ML Sound Lab Mega OS. I'm using single SM57 with C brightness variation.


Next one is ML Sound Lab Mega OG. Still with single SM57 with C brightness variation. It's sounds very vintage. If you're a Marshall guy, this cab pack is worth checking out!


Now let's take a listen to York Audio. First clip is Mesa Recto 412 from Bipolar Pack for Fractal users. I also have their new Mesa OS V2 with wav version, but I like the old one better. Same single SM57.


Last but definitely not least, I'll show you my most favorite IR from both ML Sound Lab and York Audio.

My favorite ML Sound Lab IR is Mega Traditional. It just sounds beautiful in the entire of frequency spectrum.


And my favorite York Audio IR is MRSH-M25, a Marshall cab with 25W greenback in it. I think you'll like it as much as I do.


Cheers!

 

its in the hands. guitar is in the hands, you and i will sound different

modelers cant recreat that sweet spot in an amp, but sound good in their own right. im ok with them. but still, i click through presets to find a sound that makes that thing i play sound good. not because its actually like my real amp

 

I mentioned it before that the amps are supposed to amplify your pick ups and playing, most sims dont, they capture a basic response but the higher the res the more layers of behaviour we will be able to add so modellers can indeed create anything down to the specs, the only one last thing that cant create is the air between the player and monitors...things like feedback to real speaker cone size., but you can have a 12 inch speaker around and do it via a sim as well., ive seen people do it with 8 inch monitors.

 

Great post, your def saved allot of people time, money and trouble/hoops.
I used sony mdr-7506 headphones to Check the soundcloud mp3s out and I honestly barely tell a difference between them, the riffs you played are cool and I appreciate you testing the York one which happens to be the only Marshall related IR.

I still think the STL Howard Benson (im guessing Wizard cab IRs) is closest to the tight Brutal Marshall Kerry King tone,
But out of the box (so to speak) it def lacks any of the expected High Gain with out adding a DS1, in fact all sims (nameless etc) have a distortion pedal or need one..but NDSP are game changers with high gain amps...

Kerry King's own signature Softube amp also lacks balls, in fact Lemmys is hotter., they are both in the Judas Priest ball park but nothing like the real deal when playing through them.

I have met Kerry and Lemmy from Motorhead in the past to test Riggs at SIR New York in the 80s-90s, they are Marshall guys, but what was curious was how they used Les Paul customs to test all their heads as a way to know how the rest of their instruments would behave.,
Lemmy even believed that Randy Rhoads built his second Flying V based on a les Paul, if you look closely at neck you will notice the layout and all identical to his les Paul custom as if he added a V and new headstock and this was to remain as close to a LP / Marshall plexi tone with altec speakers in his Marshall Cabs., I wish your IRs had LP Marshall but thats me here cause I also know the combo well.

I also heard that EVH A/B'ed Marshalls and other amps with a Les Paul deluxe., this guy who worked for him by the name of Chris Cannella revealed that a number of amp companies who tried to impress and convince Eddie to work with them shared all their secrets about each other, which factories they used, which materials and even how some had switched components during production to cut expenses like Apple does with batches of orders before releasing new product lines.., Eddie was a very clever guy and he had Peavy built the 5150 based on his Jose Arredondo Marshall brown sound combo., but cabinets made a huge difference too.

So from your post I am guessing that Mr Bogren has no LP/Marshall or Marshall range IR, you seem to like York/s Marshall Greenback Celestian., I am so sued to the LP/Marshall testing that I cant really tell between all those IRs, maybe im so used to the Les Paul thickness pushing more mid low body tones., but I sure appreciate your post and thank you.

 

Interesting story!

Yes, all of Bogren IRs comes with weird names and you have no idea what cab and mic used on it. I've heard that Kohle signature and their newest Drop Tuned Rythm pack are sounds better, but I'm not interested to buy any Bogren stuff at the moment.

It's so unfortunate that I sold all my amp heads, including a TSL and JVM, and left only the EVH in hand, even though I have Washburn LP style with classic SD JB/Jazz. As far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong, Kerry King used Marshall ModeFour cab, it's oversized version of Marshall and has oem vintage 30 in it. I don't know yet if any IR producer have IR product based on that particular cab. But all I can tell is, as long as you have good amp or DI box, you're really can't go wrong with ML or York. I also love ML's silver and cabpack for destruction, and York's Marshall with blackback speaker.

Goodluck and cheers!