is it better to buy a fully electric car right now that the petrol prices going up?

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by samsome, Mar 10, 2022.

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is it better to buy a fully electric car right now that the petrol prices going up?

  1. Yes

    12 vote(s)
    29.3%
  2. No

    29 vote(s)
    70.7%
  1. Trurl

    Trurl Audiosexual

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    Yes, and that counts as a power source. However, a) nowhere is that mentioned in that post, b) that counts as charging and he says after the initial charge you don't have to charge again, and c) I'm unaware of a solar system small and efficient enough to charge a car while running. Solar is like everything else right now: a great addition to a system but incapable of propping the whole system up on its own. Hydrogen still has more potential but hasn't been entirely solved either.
     
  2. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

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    Without any detail, you might as well say that praying for a result is a 100% guarantee of getting that result. It could be possible and if it is it will eventually come out as common knowledge, and it could just be fairy tale. When it comes to things like this details and understanding the mechanism or phenomena involved is more important that knowing it exists. People are certain about a great many things they they will swear are true, but until they have at least a partial understanding of what is involved it is just witchcraft or religion.

    There are 4 basic laws of thermodynamics from 0-3 and they deal with entropy and causality. It's not that there are no free lunches, are entitled to all the free lunches you can get if you can get them, but you can not just make them come out of nowhere. It's a closed system. You are thinking of the 1rst law of thermodynamics that states that do work energy can be converted from on form of potential to another but that the sum of work must be equal to the potential change in energy and that no energy/mass was created or destroyed in the process.


    Solar energy doesn't come from nowhere, there is a giant nuclear explosion in space that provides it about 8 light minutes away from this planet.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2022
  3. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

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    Depends on insurance, but generally a motorcycle is more efficient than an automobile as the mass and subsequently the power requirements involved are much smaller. It depends on the motorbike but generally you can expect between 36-45 miles per gallon on the average motorbike or as high as 60 miles per gallon on one built for efficiency.

    Automobile engines have made great strides as far as efficiency is concerned and some newer model hybrids can easily reach 36-45 miles per gallon in ideal conditions if driven properly. However, you have to be able to afford them to begin with and that is going to be majord hurdle for most of the world outside the privileged enclaves of whatever.
     
  4. DUTCHLAB

    DUTCHLAB Noisemaker

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    Electric for sure if youre able to charge at home
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2022
  5. Citrik Acid

    Citrik Acid Rock Star

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    Indeed =)
     
  6. Guitarmaniac64

    Guitarmaniac64 Rock Star

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    Much better to wait and go for a gas driven car as hydrogen gas it will soon be much cheaper (i say 3-5 years maybe?) and it can run on a regular diesel engine that lives for 30-50 000 miles that is real miles not imperial dito.
    Hydrogen gas is much better than bio gas and natural gas
     
  7. Guitarmaniac64

    Guitarmaniac64 Rock Star

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    You forgot the wheater alot of people lives on the north part of the globe and have winter for several months and it can be -30 degrees celcius or even more and alot of snow
     
  8. Trurl

    Trurl Audiosexual

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    I don't know if I'm holding my breath for hydrogen either, at least in the US, even if it becomes cost effective. Remember the Hindenburg? That stuff blows up REAL good, even more than gasoline. We haven't proven to be the best in the world at risk/benefit analysis. As soon as some terrorists figure out they can blow up trucks, trains and pipelines of hydrogen that may be that. We'll see.
     
  9. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

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    Meh as long as we get off petroleum in mid to short term I think it will be a benefit to all.

    As far as Hydrogen being flammable, so are a lot of other things. I don't live my life giving a second thought to what a terrorist might or might not do. Besides if we get rid of petrotyrants we might be also getting rid of the majority of the world's terrorist funding.

    The 'current world situation' with as much snark as you can image because it is intended has made it pretty clear that all it takes is one coocoo to stir the pot and it all goes sideways.

    Some small electric moped company in Taiwan is already mass producing and testing solid state batteries with 1/2 the mass with 1.4 times the energy density.

    We are all getting ahead of ourselves for no reason.

    I forgot who said this, I think it was the old Saudi Monarch from the 70s... When the stone age ended it wasn't because human beings ran out of rocks.
     
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  10. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    Is Concrete the Future of Energy Storage?
     
  11. Trurl

    Trurl Audiosexual

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    Note- I didn't say we should actually be overly risk averse about using hydrogen as fuel. I said we most likely WILL be overly risk averse about using hydrogen for fuel. Why freak out over hydrogen when we've made peace with gasoline? Because we aren't rational.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2022
  12. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

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    So many reasons why the concrete tower is an overly complex bad idea but it does look cool AF.
     
  13. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    At least now we have a way to store energy. The invention of solar cells was great and wind energy works too, but when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow in winter, the lights go out. Where have you been - you're not online at all, the wind doesn't blow and it's dark here, I don't have any electricity.

    They research diligently and just like the first PC was room-sized, within a short period of time they have developed computers further and today they carry a mini PC in the pocket of their pants. At and the excess electricity is stored in lava rock during the day and at night they can use the heat from the lava rock.

    Salt water storage:
    A salt storage unit is a type of electricity storage unit that uses salt and, depending on the technology, various other raw materials. In a way, manufacturers of salt storage have made it their goal to offer an electricity storage system made of the most sustainable material possible, in order to be able to store electricity from photovoltaic systems.

    So we need energy storage and research is only just beginning, we already have hydrogen buses. The bus is quiet, and only water vapor comes out, 100% climate-friendly. They want to replace steel factories and coal-fired power plants with hydrogen, because of climate change.
     
  14. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    Energy Disruption: Provocative look at the world in 2030 (ALTCAR Expo 2014)
     
  15. JMOUTTON

    JMOUTTON Audiosexual

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    This is getting off-topic.

    I agree with that we need a way to store electrical energy.

    I am just saying that from an engineering perspective the concrete tower is a terrible way to do it.

    Not far from you the Bavarians have been using pumped hydro for a while now and it works more efficiently, is simpler, cheaper and has less wear and tear parts than a concrete tower. Concrete towers look cool, but in the real world with wind, scale and cost they are just not good for the intended purpose.

    Molten salt storage can be retrofired onto most natural gas powered turbine generating plants, Flow batteries salt or iron based, the Aus.are even using a solid LiH battery. The technology exists, the will to get it done just has never been high. Lobbies and cronies, it will still take about 10 years to idiot proof all of it. Anyway, this isn't the place to discuss every type of utility scale electric storage, there are resources already dedicated to that for those who have the capacity or the will to understand it. Outside of that it is like explaining rocket engines to cave men.
     
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  16. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    I also know of a pumped storage plant where excess energy, pumps water to a higher place and at night the water rushes through the pipes and drives a turbine. The idea I always found great, unfortunately, Germany is very flat and the amount of energy generated by pumped storage plants is just enough for a village. In Norway it's totally different - they have a lot of pumped storage plants and even sell electricity to Germany. There is a cable as thick as an arm to Norway and Germany has a power supply contract with Norway.
    That's what I say, but you have to push ahead with research, and the Freiburg Institute is currently researching materials capable of storage with such an experimental tower. Which materials store heat long enough? Which materials are suitable for storing electricity.
    Theoretically, every house and every factory roof should be covered with solar panels of the last generation, i.e. not individual solar panels but complete roofs, and then you need effective electricity storage.

    Here's a ray of hope:
    At the beginning of the "International Year of Light and Light-based Technologies" of the United Nations Educational.
    They have further developed solar cells and photovoltaic modules based on organic molecules that convert sunlight into electricity. The new modules are lightweight, flexible and have the potential for low-cost production. As a result, they open up new fields of application in building-integrated photovoltaics. In addition, they can make an important contribution to electricity generation from renewable energies in the future.
    https://www.fmf.uni-freiburg.de/de/news/lichtblicke-in-der-solarforschung

    I think you should be allowed to talk about everything here, because as a musician you also need electricity all the time and prohibitions on thinking are counterproductive. It is a very complex topic and the future of the earth depends on our decisions.
    Thanks to the Internet, free knowledge is available to all who are connected. We should continue to exchange here and if this happens everywhere we will also save our planet.
     
  17. slowpoke

    slowpoke Kapellmeister

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    Yeah, the i-Pace does 0-60 in 4 secs, and the beauty of the EV is that acceleration is pretty linear up to top speed.
     
  18. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    Jmoutton reply is totally right. A more simplified version is that energy can't be created nor destroyed. It only can be converted.
    But that in practice blows up when you count the "potential energy" that have all kind of combustibles, since wood until oil and gas. Also nuclear source materials like enriched uranium etc. Hence Jmoutoon's comment "all the free launches if you can get them".

    Problem using "potential energy" is the fucked up end residues. Being natural gas the least bad.

    That's why since decades every nuclear energy researcher most wet dream is achieve a profitable nuclear fusion, not the current nuclear fission. It would have way more less dangerous source materials and end residues. If not zero, I don't recall exactly. But science is still far from there.
     
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