Interesting comments refix, thank you.

I agree with what you're saying about touring and the past vs. current economics of doing so. The thing is, in the 1960's through the 1990's it was fairly common for a record label to financially support an artist's touring because the tours promoted the record sales. Where it became tricky was that all that layout of money then had to be paid back to the record label out of future record sales, which meant the artist saw very little money out of it all unless they became a music biz superstar. That's why I was saying back then we had such contempt for the labels since the system was set up so that artist's lost if they lost, but still seemed to lose even if they won! What we didn't foresee was where we've landed today; the label financial support has all but disappeared, and along with it a lot of good artists are either never heard or have relatively short careers because the economics of the current business doesn't allow most artists to survive. That's why I was saying in my earlier comment that as contemptible as the labels might behave towards artists, we may have severely underestimated their value in the scheme of music business survival.

And yes, as for your remark about my dear cellist friend, it is both tragic and too common.

I also agree that there's plenty of interesting music nowadays. Unfortunately, much of it never gets heard, in large measure because we no longer have large corporations funding the publicizing process along with their more experienced oversight. lol, I never thought I'd be saying that I miss the control the big labels used to have!

 

Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2022

What we need is a better and fairer society that gives more value and appreciation to music and its artists. Musicians and artists make culture and are responsible like the beautiful things like cinema, paintings, theater, concerts and books.

If you think that labels and the market will regulate this, you are wrong. From above nothing comes except they wave bills so that everyone works hard just to get the benefit of the bills. From what you have created they take a large part you away in their own pocket, the yacht wants to be paid, with the profits from your song is speculated on the stock market so that one gets even more out.

It is like the name already says a music industry and goal of each company is it to obtain profits. Here with us there are theaters that are state-sponsored, because otherwise you could not pay the theater actors, house, rent. So dear fellow men if you wait that from above some justice comes you wait forever. From above has never come what. Improvements have always fought for people from below.

So get together, found a non-profit association for the promotion of musicians and artists or found an artist collective.

 

Theories aside and this is only my personal opinion even though historically, if I did some actual research on this opinion, I might be able to support it...

The day nobody wants to learn how to play an instrument, nobody wants to go out and see people play any instrument requiring human skills, nobody wants to learn how to become a good singer without auto-tune, nobody likes any music that is played on a real instrument unless it is completely computerised..
Then I would wholeheartedly agree, music will stagnate and probably get worse because instead of an estimated less than 40% being computer-manufactured, none of it will be done by human beings other than getting a computer to do it for them and yes, it will be worse and get worse.

P.S. - In every style/genre of music where real instrument players and composers exist, they will continue to rely on the creativity that comes from within, with music knowledge they acquired not computer skills, and aim to break boundaries within their style/genre. They exist even now. It is unlikely you will find the attempts to create new ideas on the hit parade, the Top 100 or in EDM/Techno/Trap/D&B etc pits other than techniques with technology. Music will keep getting better as long as people want to explore and find something new. It is rare those creators/explorers are top of the pops. Occasionally, some you may find doing film scores but even then, many are what is popular and going to sell. You just have to look.

 

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Maybe you are misunderstanding me. I'm saying that all of that exists now, and it's a great time to find great music in 2022. I find great music online all the time now. What I'm saying is the opposite - that the opportunity didn't exist in 1975 (or whenever the OP thinks "good music" ruled the day). Back then, the choices were very limited. The popular bands were very talented, and that's great, but there were only 900 (or whatever) bands to choose from. Now in 2022, the most popular bands might not be the most talented, but there's an endless supply of great music to discover.

One of my favorite music artists is Sam Amidon, who was a violinist from Vermont, who ended up playing songs from the 1800s on guitar. I very much doubt he would have gotten signed in 1975, OR he would have had to play music the record labels thought he could sell. In 2022, he can play whatever he wants. And his music is amazing. And he probably doesn't make any money from streaming. But he plays in Ireland, and Japan and all over the place. No one should think that's a bad situation for this artist. It's a great situation, that wouldn't have existed in some of the decades when bands were making millions and riding private jets.

 

Last edited: Mar 1, 2022

yes. even within that time period there was a gradual change. in the late 70's, when i started playing, there was a revolt against the top down system: bigger players somewhat adapted and controlled this grass roots push, smaller players slowly gained more influence and grew bigger but they all could never could quite regain the control of the past. this was partly driven by greater access to equipment to produce music in a replicatable form -- this is a constant push that has already been discussed in this thread -- as well as other factors. obviously it is a very comprehensive subject, and there are many shades of grey.

it can be argued that this is also a juncture where the quality of music declined, certainly some made that argument (even thought there was still a plethora of uninspiring music before that). i was very young and influential, so i was all for it, let the cards fall where they may. it was not a conscious effort to make music worse, there was respect for (even a reverence) what had come before, but maybe a more primal immediacy to the musical experience within culture. it could be viewed as a realignment to a (real or imagined) older folk music within a lower cultural context -- taking it back; stealing the crown.

in terms of addressing some primary drive for all this. i do not think the need for some people to escape the a rigid social structure that they feel overwhelmed by or alienated within can be discounted in the general urge for artistic expression. some choose being an outlaws or criminals (some musicians i knew were pretty much both), others the multitude of cloistered institutions or simpler rural lives. being a dumb musician, money was important as it needed to be, but the driving factor was always some stupid ideological internal struggle to reconcile what had come before to my personal reactions. looking back in context it seems like some kind of obsessive insanity, but being almost totally immersed in that subculture you were surrounded by equally insane people, it seemed to make sense. maybe this aspect is best expressed in verse:

"...I was lost in a valley of pleasure
I was lost in the infinite sea
I was lost and measure for measure
Love spewed from the heart of me
I was lost and the cost
And the cost didn't matter to me
I was lost and the cost
Was to be outside society...

...Outside of society they're waitin for me
Outside of society that's where I want to be..."

-- patti smith, rock'n'roll n***er

 

i must admit waltzing into a venue with a USB stick, and collecting a check for throwing your hands in the air, is a much better concept than lugging a ton of gear up and down stairs to have someone throw up on your shoes.

[having exorcised my bitter cynical take] i must acknowledge that i am very impressed by some of the young instrumentalists i have seen on things like youtube, but by the looks of them i do not know how well they would perform when someone is throwing a beer bottle at their head.

also, being a good instrumentalist is only part way to being a good musician. unfortunately, i suspect these young buggers have that covered too -- *sigh*...

-- in defense of the old buggers, we did not have access to all this interwebs spaceage s**t (still they fetishise the old gear -- at least the aesthetic of it. they would not if they actually had to work with it.) i think they should be forced to eternally acknowledge the old farts, and bow to their sacrifice (and hand over their fat checks).

 

Last edited: Mar 1, 2022

I hear you.
But us old buggers in many ways were also raised in an environment where we believed it would always get better where cynical attitudes were on the positive side and skepticism was reserved for being told an agent was going to pay us.
All of that said, the rite of passage you mentioned I would not trade for anything because it was not only a good experience though it did not seem like it at the time, it aided the strengthening of our character.. Nicely put

 

I get you, that's the evolution or development of man, back then there were also less books, less TV programs and of course as you've already figured out less talented bands that weren't promoted and so weren't accessible to the masses. The Internet is one of the greatest inventions of the modern era, now you can perceive from each person worldwide his art and consume the variety.

At our place of residence there were some bands that performed, school festival, city festival but it has been very regional and the bands have not become known beyond the county, today the bands of yesteryear can digitize their music and upload it to the Internet.

 

The biggest advantage us old geezers and geezettes had was learning stage craft (djs: I don't mean pretending to twist knobs). I've seen many videos of terrific guitar players who haven't got a clue how to relate to their audience, it's like there's no connection at all.

The better newer bands that do break through these days have learned stage craft, they've paid their dues and it's obvious.

 

hah. aye, it strengthend our character, and damaged our backs. (until you could afford roadies)

i always liked that story of the motown studio musos, who use to do jazz gigs at night, stealing a club owners wallet at gun point when they did not get paid. that is the way to do it, if you are going to do it. i do not think i have that strong of a character -- though i like it in principle.

the performance aspect is often overlooked. even a bit of depth to ones personality can go a long way to selling something. attitude? something like that.

i think i mentioned up there^ that the natural selection that lead to a person making such bizarre life choices, such as a career in music, use to ensure a suitably intriguing personality. maybe that mechanism has broken down somewhat. if your introduction to music is in a sterile bedroom on the internet rather than someone sweating on you while being stuck to a beer soaked carpet, it may have an adverse effect.

 

and simultaneously.
The rest was funny though to steal the wallet of person who did not pay you might be somewhere between abject stupidity and pure balls - probably both. There was time when a musician's union was not a toothless tiger collecting from people who did not pay but that is not only a different topic, it is also ancient history.

 

. (mistake please delete)

 

Last edited: Mar 3, 2022