Hi to all,

I could not find any way to arrange pitch bend range on Toontrack EzBass. For example in cubase, in an instument channel, there is a bass midi file that contains pitch bend data, EzBass reads it pitch bend fixed to 2 I guess. Bu there is no way to change it. I want it to be 12.
Could anyone help me about this?

Thank you.

 

I wonder how you will achieve a pitch bend of that range on a real bass. Maybe a slide could help (if the fret allows for that range)?

 

I think that's a misinterpretation. I don't think he's trying to achieve octave bends.

I think he's wrestling with the stuff described (badly) below.
TLDR: no solution offered here - just outlining the problem.

MIDI pitch bend data values range from -8192 to +8191
That data range gets mapped over a pitch range in an instrument (some instruments allow you to adjust the pitch range)
e.g., many instruments typically default to using the whole data range to achieve -,+, 2 semitones
(that fits well with what people typically want from a mod-wheel)

But Guitar Pro (for example) maps the range to -,+ 12 semitones and requires the rendering instrument to use the same pitch range (it lets guitarists show off their 2-tone bends, etc)
(that 2-tone bend would use 1/3 of the +ve data range with these settings)

If you recorded a performance according to GuitarPro settings, which is what the OP's MIDI file is (probably)
then imagine if the performance included a 3-semitone bend (1/4 of the +ve data range)

If you play that back on an instrument that's using a -,+ 2 semitone range
then your 3-semitone bend will sound like a 1/2 semitone bend (still 1/4 of the +ve data range - but mapped to smaller pitch range)

In almost all cases you rely on the instrument being able to have its pitch range adjusted to match the midi file.
The alternative of transforming the pitch bend data values in the midi file is rarely satisfactory (and messy)

IF EzBass does NOT have adjustable pitch bend range settings (and is locked at -,+ 2 semitones) (I don't know, but OP's comment suggests that's true - and it's disappointing of EzBass if true) then the pitch bend data in a midi file (that used range 12 semitones) is just not compatible and you're screwed.
If I was in that situation, and if the MIDI file was valuable enough to keep, I would usually just choose a more flexible instrument.

Sorry to bring no solution; I've occasionally gone down the transforming midi data route using midi transformers in Logic - it's messy and not recommended. I have (surprisingly) never found a general utility to do that kind of midi transformation, so if anyone knows of one please do broadcast here.

---
The reason it's messy to transform the MIDI is that usually if your midi file is working with a pitch bend range of -,+ 12 semitones it's likely that you have actual pitch bends in there that are greater than -,+ 2 semitones. Those bends simply cannot be translated properly to an instrument that is fixed with a -,+ 2 semitone range.

Must find time to actually explore EzBass - I'll be very disappointed if it's not flexible enough to accommodate midi generated by Guitar Pro using -,+ 12 semitone range.

 

Last edited: Jan 2, 2022

Thank you so much for enlightening answer. I will search for a flexible bass instrument.

 

Yep, looks like it doesn't have one.

But they can be multiplied with 0.x to reduce their relative amount, for instance with 0.9, or 0.3. Depends on how the values are shown (-8192 to +8191 or 0 to 16384).

 

not sure if this will help
https://forums.steinberg.net/t/pitchbend-range/101360/3

 

Thanks for verifying - I'm surprised from Toontrack

Yes agreed - that is (roughly the basis of) the approach I take with transformers in Logic, but it's only viable IF and WHEN all the pitch bends that you want are within the pitch bend range of the instrument. So, if you a have 2.5 tone bend (and, primary goal, you want to keep that as a 2.5 tone bend) then whatever transformation you make, to map onto an an instrument with a -,+ 2 semitone fixed range, is still going to fail.
And when you explore it, the little complications to the basic transformation idea just keep on popping up... e.g., the messiness of articulation issues like 'releasing pre-bends', etc; you can't just assume that a -,+ 2 semitone range seems to have enough pitch range to accommodate a 2 tone bend.

I've used that approach OK for Bass when, for example, a GuitarPro MIDI export using -,+ 12 semitone range included both a guitar part and a bass part.

The guitar midi performed some 2 tone bends (and larger) and was therefore not transformable, but the bass midi was using just mictronal bends, mostly less than a semi-tone, and so the bass midi was transformable OK to map onto an instrument with a -,+ 2 semitone range.

 

Last edited: Jan 3, 2022

Nice thing to draw attention to. (but alas...)
That briefly describes how to use MIDI cc to tell an instrument to change its pitch bend range - a useful traditional MIDI feature, but if the Instrument says "tough luck I can't/won't change my pitch bend range" then it's of little use.

Wouldn't it be an amazing discovery though if it turned out that EzBass could respond to that change pitch bend range cc and someone forgot to include the change pitch bend range option in EzBass settings GUI.
That thought would be an example of me having a desparation fantasy if I was cursing at EzBass.
Someone ought to try it, with odds of success being probably worse than winning the lottery.

 

Bass Guitar packages with adjustable pitch bend range...

• Spectrasonics Trillian (definitely - I've used it)
• Amplesound Bass (various) (definitely - I've used some of them)
• Shreddage Precision (according to the manual)
• IK Multimedia Modo Bass (as a modelled bass would be bizarre if it didn't)

Plus dozens and dozens more that I haven't tried; and with synth basses instead of guitar basses just add hundreds to the list.

 

I know I'm always banging on about Hypersonic 2 BUT, you can pitch bend up to + or- 2 octaves (1 octave in 12 semi-tonal increments) as well as 1 octave harmonics

 

@ibo If you take a look at this thread...
https://audiosex.pro/threads/tell-m...do-that-ableton-cant.62467/page-7#post-613478
I asked the Reaper guru's to chip in - and they delivered. I feel like I made a profit here

There is a convenient JSFX script for Reaper that should make exploring this very viable if you're prepared to use Reaper.
Details of the script are in the spoiler below.
I don't have time myself to get into this hands-on, just now, but I can see that it is definitely promising enough to make an exploration worth doing.

@ibo, If you go down this road - please do let us know how it went.

Cheers

JSFX script for Reaper - PitchBend Scaler

Spoiler: JSFX script for Reaper - PitchBend Scaler

Pitchbend Scaler
https://sites.google.com/site/octarone/code/midi-tools/pitchbend-scaler

Simple JSFX script that scales incoming Pitchbend messages by a specific factor, each channel has a different factor so it can be customized per-channel. This scaling is useful if the incoming pitchbend range is different than the range expected by the receiving synth after this script, and you can do it per-channel as well. For example a factor of 0.5 on Channel 1 will multiply all pitchbends on that channel by half, which means that the incoming pitchbend range is twice as small as the expected range (let's say incoming pitchbend range is supposed to be ±1 semitone, while the next synth expects ±2 semitones, for example).

Download it here http://stash.reaper.fm/28129/Pitchbend Scaler.zip

Despite the fact that the scale factor sliders are between 0…2, you can actually use any value outside this range, even negative values (which inverts the pitchbend but not as proper as the Pitchbend Inverter); you just have to type them manually instead of moving the slider. (which I recommend anyway for surgical precision to properly compensate for range differences)

Some things to bear in mind.

Spoiler: Some things to bear in mind

[1] from my previous comment - there are inherent limits and this script cannot get around them (no script could) (but your Bass midi file probably won't push these limits)

[2] A counter-intuitive aspect. (described for your example)

• Your source input is MIDI pitch bend data that was performed using an instrument with a wide pitch bend range (-,+ 12 semitones)
• Your destination output is MIDI pitch bend data that will be compatible with an instrument using a narrow pitch bend range (-,+ 2 semitones)
• Perhaps counter-intuitive that this means you will be expanding your pitch bend data values.
• So you will use a multiplier of x6
• Any pitch bends that exceed 2 tones (you'll presumably have NONE of these in your Bass MIDI) would get expanded x6 to beyond the pitch bend data limits
• I peeked into the script and it looks like it adopts a simple limiter-like approach and would just max out safely. But that is how and why pitch bends of greater than 2 tones would not transform properly in this example transformation scenario.

 

It's about the Nature of the instrument..

Just as you cannot make a cat live underwater (for too long),
you cannot bend a Realist Bass instrument, because just like the Real instrument: it's simply not made for that..

And that's basically it.
Scarbee basses don't do it, nor Modo Bass, EZ Bass.. not even Iconic Bass Jaco can do it.

All of them are limited to 2 semitones, why?

Because you wouldn't bend a Real Bass beyond 2 semitones,
it would be hard on your fingers, and it will stretch the strings considerably, so the entire instrument could get out of tune..

However most libraries let you Slide the notes,
and that's what you should do if you want a realist performance..

Slides are usually triggered with CC64 aka Hold Pedal, for instance in Scarbee..
While bends can also be triggered with CC5 in Modo Bass..

If you really really want to do it with a Kontakt instrument tho,
all you have to do is assign a CC controller to the Tune button:



It's either that or use a Synth Bass..
For instance Korg Triton doesn't sound too bad, and lets you bend +12/-60 which is nuts..

I guess most other Synths will allow too,
or who knows maybe Trilian.

But that's the thing if you want a Realist sounding Bass,
the music/performance should be realistic/realistically conceived..

 

Last edited: Jan 3, 2022

I can confirm that.

 

I don't know if has been side before, but in the worst case you can use a pitch shifter. A little trouble, but for a pitch bend they sound well.

How could you!!! Bullying to death your little cousin race... that's MY job!!

 

Did the experiment - have now verified 2 things...
[1] That EZbass can NOT have its pitch bend range changed by using MIDI RPN cc message to tell it to change its range.
[2] That I was stupid enough to actually try the experiment.

 

You can do this in EZbass Grid Editor and thought I'd share just in case you didn't know cos I've only just discovered it myself and may help others although not with pitch bend wheel. When you select the 2 notes in EZbass Grid Editor with the pointer tool and select the slide style down arrow and choose a slide it worked with doing a +43 bend but didn't sound too great. Probably much better to use the EZbass Grid Editor anyway as it gives you many more other options for ghost notes, harmonics, percussive left hand etc. Sounded much more pleasing with a +12 slide.

This is what it looks like when you drag it back to midi in Cubase from Ezbass +43 bend


and what it looked like in EZbass +12 bend

This is a quite handy short video for tips on using some of the features in the EZbass Grid Editor for articulations etc. to help sound even more professional and can be then dragged back to the cubase track and bobs your uncle

 

This feels like doing the washing up after a meal!
Just reporting back to say that the JSFX script 'PitchBend Scaler' does work as described.
With the following observations...

The first test setup - Setup [1]
- Track 1 contains the source midi that needs to have its pitch bend data transformed
- midi is fed into JSFX script 'PitchBend Scaler'
- and then into a VSTi to render and hear the output
All the above is on one track - it's simple enough, just a 2 FX chain - but it was crashing intermittently, and causing Reaper to hang. And that crashing is beyond my level of interest to debug and solve!

The second test setup - Setup [2]
- Track 1 contains the source midi that needs to have its pitch bend data transformed
- midi is fed into JSFX script 'PitchBend Scaler'
- NO rendering VSTi is used on this Track 1
- Track 1 is routed to Track 2 instead
- Track 2 is set up to record the transformed midi output from Track 1
- A rendering/monitoring VSTi is set up on track 2.

Now the crashes stopped - great - but again it's beyond my level of interest to figure out why this works OK in Setup [2] but crashes in SetUp [1]

So, IF I had wanted to use it as a real-time transformer, operating every time the midi file is played, i.e., I just wanted to use SetUp [1] then the above crashes/complications would be irritating. Shame because that is (I think) the typical intended use. I'm more than happy to blame my Reaper ignorance here - someone else might find it trivially easy to explain and fix the crashes.

But my goal instead would be to do a one-time transformation of the source midi file and then permanently replace that source file with the transformed version. For that goal Setup [2] would be required anyway - and that works OK.

Conclusion:-
Although Setup [2] worked OK, for me it won't replace doing the same task using Logic's MIDI transformers - mainly because...
In Logic the task is not restricted to a real-time playback of the MIDI file, i.e., the transformer does its job as though it's processing an offline file - very fast. And it destructively transforms the source file (in situ) as intended, no messing around re-recording to a separate track, etc. In contrast, the JSFX script in Reaper requires the midi file to be played back in real time to achieve the transform, and re-recorded to a new track - that's actually a bit tedious.

So, a very usable script for Reaper, gets a thumbs up - very handy to have, but I'll stick to using Logic for this task. This applies equally well to modern Logic on a Mac or 20-year old Logic 5 running on a PC.

 

Last edited: Jan 8, 2022