I was wondering specifically about midi keyboards and controllers that have automap features, and if they have any issues with cracked plugins. Would any of them or their vst wrapper software have issues recognizing cracked vst's?

Specifically, controllers like these:
Komplete Kontrol controllers
Nektar controllers
Novation
Arturia
ect..

Nektar seems pretty extensive in the way it automaps, with folders and subfolders of named midi assignments. These kinds of controllers include these features in their cost, so I was wondering if most cracked plugins would work or not.

I do not know how these controllers or their wrapper software detect vst's, and hopefully they do not use a signature or anything like that. Most cracked vst's should only be reverse engineered and modified to bypass checks, and should not modify the exposed interface or strings, so I suspect if anything were to go wrong, it would be due to the controllers.

 

I have Arturia mini lab and it works sweet with the Collection V also the standalone VST's.

 

i have a KK version 1, it works pretty well in DAW and standalone, but as you've guessed some products dont scan as well as others.
i like the weight of the keybed (for me) on the 61 and aftertouch is awesome with instruments that support it. but on mine each of the white keys had a tiny sharp corner on the front right side from the mold that i took a little file to. and the slide strips on the side instead of mod wheels, i would have rather had wheels like the v2.
as far as mapping, obviously pairs well with kontakt. and it has an onboard chord and arp mode that work very well, like a built in scaler. but the hardware chords and arps cant be dragged outside its own (or vst) software.
i also have an akai apc40 mkii that does suprisingly well with ableton. between the two, they are powerful for performing or just jamming in ableton, and the KK will do a little more as a controller producing in vst mode inside other daw's.
hope this helps, i havent played with any of the newer controllers that are out. keep in mind the learning curve of any new hardware. good luck

 

I think you will find that any problems like this you will encounter, will be on a plugin-by-plugin basis. Generically, people will say any of these "will work". If I was shopping around for a controller, this would not assist my decision that much, compared to other factors like keybed, knob/slider count, and so on. Narrow it down to the last few models you may pick, and then do this research. It probably won't matter. Normal DAW compatibility and integration/Controller Profiles should already sway you to the correct controller for you. well, more than this.

 

That would only be possible if the controller would check the licenses. Since they don't do this...

 

not sure what you mean... a controller cant have automap, the software does.

 

Oh, I already picked out the ones I think are the most attractive. I'm mainly focused on workflow. I guess I should have said pre-mapped instead of automap, because this is what I have more in mind. The nektar products certainly look the most attractive, as they have daw integration and pre-maps for vst's. The T-series can work with a wrapper that gives you all the pre-maps, and the T-series has one of the nicer keybeds and pads. I'm not too concerned with that, though, as I already have a weighted keyboard which I am getting a stand for, that will sit perpendicular to my desk space. I'm fairly dry on the cash, though, so I really desire a workflow that can jump from the daw to the vst with pre-maps. Stuff like komplete kontrol and nektar lets you see what you have assigned a well.

 

The hypothetical scenario is that a controller may see the cracked plugin as a different plugin, and its pre-map or automap may not assign. In that case, you have to map it yourself. Defeating the point of some controllers that have well thought out integration with these plugins.

 

that would be a warranty rabbit hole. "you said it works with xyzzy for specific purpose... and it doesn't. and you knew full well because you put the check that makes it not work in. I want my money back/RMA." Some European countries have some interesting consumer protection laws.

But going back to the wrapper, specifically with the NI products. Wouldn't you be using a scene released/k'd Komplete Kontrol , Maschine, etc anyway?

 

Last edited: Nov 7, 2021

Novation: it's Automap (it's the name of their program) will do a copy of the automaped plug-in and this does not always work as well as it should, depending of the plug-in, you can have license problem, scanning problem from your daw. And your daw will show the plug-in twice.

From what I read Nektar use a similar system.

Arturia: it only have their own plugins premapped. I have a Keylab 61, and it's very easy to map any plug-in yourself, which also have the advantage that it's you who decide which knob or slider is assigned to what.
As opposed to automap programs that will assign the filter resonance of one plug-in to knob one, and the same parameters of another plug-in to knob 3. Which is not the best way to work on the long term.

Conclusions it's better to chose your keyboard based on it's layout and features, than the automap capability.

 

I guess in theory it would be possible that a controller or better, the software checks the licenses if the dev is the same for both. But I've never heard that this has happened.

 

This is a good thread as I was always curious about the difference between Arturia, Komplete Kontrol & Nektar regarding 3rd party VST.

 

good input guys, we do love our hardware dont we.
don't forget to first look at your main DAW itself, look up what controllers they say they have maps supported. then also, what you want to do with it. by automap is a pretty broad question.

here, when i first got into it i bought cakewalk legit and a pcr-800 keyboard. after years of thinking it was my fault, and being told by tech support that i was doing it wrong they finally admitted in open letter that the DAW didnt actually support the keyboards firmware.
fired cakewalk. bought FL studio and bought KK61. then, read in FL forum that they wont support KK because NI wouldn't send them one.
i was absolutely livid. obviously fired FL too.

it sounds like you want a controller that will automatically be doing what you've set up on each channel when you switch channel performing??
hate to say but for that you might look at novation/ableton 9 pairing. thats right, i said 9. and novation can range from a cheap 25 key up to high end keybeds, finger drum pads etc.

so im saying your question is too broad.
lets back up and start with what do you want to do with the hardware? and which DAW do you have a shine for?
if you like finger drumming, that takes you in a midi fighter/ maschine direction. if you are thinking DJ that takes you in a numark direction??...

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2021

Nektarine (Nektar's plugin in a plugin loader) does not 'automap' anything, but it does fail to load some plugins, so if you're using a host that has decent control mapping (theoretically, all of them, but S1's is gimped by only allowing 1 midi source at a time) you're better off just using the control mapping in your DAW.

 

Nektar may use a similar system just for unmapped vst's, but their pre-map part of automapping (vst's they deep integrated) are actually a serious feature. Apparently, you get full menu and submenu like a real synthesizer, rather than just having banks. On the T-series you get this with the nektarine wrapper, and it also lets you build similar menus. On the P-series, you get this without the wrapper (so its less useful for building your own menus), but you get more knobs and a better UI.

Some people found a hack where in one or more of the DAWs, a p series can load the nektarine maps into the controller. You had to trick nektarine into loading a map file then editing it, and it sometimes fails to work.

As far as I know, the map files for nektarine have been yet to be cracked, and they have some obfuscated or serialized files. I've attempted to use entropy analysis on them, and they are probably not encrypted, but they do not respond to decompression algorithms or standard decoding.

 

Its for pre-mapping. I think I got this piece of english confused.

 

I'm looking for a daw controller that can jump between a daw/mix bus mode and instrument mode. I want my instrument mode to give me a synthesizer like menu; for example, if I have serum selected, it should turn serum from a software synth to hardware synth. I should have the menu's and submenu's for parameters, and for an unmapped vst, I would prefer being able to map it myself and name my menus.

The ones that seem closest to this are KK and Nektar T/P series.

 

its sounding more like that you will need DAW capability, then controller thats on their supported list.
only time i've seen what you ask is older ableton (live 9) would allow a function called solo on select in the old options txt. so if i selected a bus or master, presto my controller(s) was pre-mapped as i had set it up.
i'm kinda on a mission myself to get back to whichever version last supported that for me.
there are a couple of 3rd party adaptor apps like reamidi or blue cats midi adaptor.

also, dont rule out splitting function to separate controllers. like in my case i do all track/bus/sends selections on one hardware (apc40) and on selection the KK lights up with whatever template i had built for that. actually apc40 still handles alot of knob and slider roles there too

 

The more I research, the more I gravitate toward the nektar T-series and P-series. It might be better to have both a T and P, but regardless, I primarily wanted to know how those cracked plugins behave with those pre-mapped menus. The behavior with pre-maps sounds like it wont have any issues, according to what most people said on this thread. Occasionally, there might be a vst that needs to be mapped by myself, but that is already an issue regardless of cracked plugins.

 

Thank you for the explanation.
Is there a list of nektar pre-mapped vst(i) ?