yeah you can reason all you want but in the end you rented a house from a company that wont allow you to move out and let someone pay you to let them move into a house you do not own. renting and owning is not the same and you are trying to scam and IL and some poor idiot. and the whole warez scene and almost all developers all agree on one thing: scamming is bad and is considered worse than piracy because you are trying to make money by trying to sell something you do not own.

the reason why almost everybody is against you is because we have seen this before and in the end it's not gonna be you that pays the price. it has nothing to do with horses or what we did, it has to do with you failing to understand what renting is.

and if you're wondering why i'm so sure, i actually actively worked with a dev to take down a seller of pirated software and i'm sure he knew why and how i knew it was pirated software, we worked together and took the seller down, we had a good laugh after the arrogant twat got busted and he thanked me and i thanked him and we went our own ways again.

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2021

Agreed. You didn't.
He got muddled up between you and slowpoke.

Remember they will have lost out on another full sale as a result...

Whilst I can't deny I see the logic of what you are saying, it's still a moot point under the circumstances.
I would have backed you on that one, but you wrote cheap, license, and account with a capital letter in the thread title.
So I'm out! lol

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2021

what i forgot to mention and has to do with what the OP claimed (high horse, something worse, pirating) is something the dev told me when we were taking down the seller of pirated software and why illegal selling is actually worse that pirating.

it's quite simple: a downloader of pirated software knows he/she wont get product support, no help from the dev, no updates and so on. a buyer of a legally obtained license who is unaware that the sale is actually illegal wont know he's has no right to get support, updates and anything else a legal license should be getting. it gives the company a bad name and leaves the buyer with nothing and that is considered worse than pirating, and not just by the dev.

so we are actually just trying to protect the buyer.

also: i'm not on a high horse, i just live on the 2nd floor of my apartment building.

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2021

Of course you are not accountable if you don't like a software (anymore) or if it has lost its usefulness for you.
Even if you don't like it just bacause its Monday that's your decision and no one elses.
Besides, I think it's your legal right (in the EU) to sell the license that belongs to you. *)
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2012-07/cp120094de.pdf

And you know the possible problems now and will surely point them out to the potential buyer. Good luck!

*) Even with a licensee outside the EU, it may be that this jurisdiction applies, because most likely the developer defines the jurisdiction for the contract in Belgium in his terms and conditions. Consequntly EU law also applies.

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2021

No it's not, you really are mad over nothing.
With other daws you only buy a certain "version" of the software with its minor updates, yes they may allow you to resell your copy but it is tied to one specific version and to upgrade in the future you'll have to pay and pay even more at each update.
With IL you only pay once, but since they offer you free lifetime updates, they gotta trade something else ergo your "ownership" (which isn't really ownership but whatever).
It's a different business model sure but it is not "shit" nor a scam, I actually prefer it over having to pay every fuccin time a new version of the daw is released.
Nobody is gonna offer you full ownership and lifetime updates, it's just not gonna happen.

 

I think Image Line is a really fair company with their lifetime updates model. Most other brands don't have lifetime updates... Like my beloved Cubase, every 2 years I need to pay 50€ for the new version .-.

But it's still kinda bad that you can't resell your account, if you don't use it anymore it's totally worthless for you...

 

Cakewalk
Logic Pro
Both are special cases

While Cakewalk is completly free and also all updates
Logic Pro will be interessting in 3-6 Years (or more)
I belive they removed the X =10 for more than one reason
From December 8, 2011- 9 ,2021 now it´s Version 10.6.x

If you can compile it yourself :
Ardour


Not Lifetime but 10 Years of updates
Reaper

 

Image-line has a brilliant business model,... you must be thinking of AD0Be/AUT0D3SK, where you pay for something you don't own.

 

Is it legit one or those cracked accounts (FL Studio, Ableton, Serato DJ etc.) are seen in hacking forums, discord & telegram... ???

 

I'm not failing to understand anything lol. Maybe you should read what I've said a little slower. Is it "wrong"... yes. Do I know I'm technically not allowed to do it...yes. Have I also J-walked (which is "wrong" and against the law)...yes. My whole point is that in my personal view, considering I bought the software, I don't think it is all that bad what I'm doing. It won't hurt IL much in the grand scheme of things. If you want to, as I said, sit on your high horse and tell me I'm violating the TOS then cool mate I agree. I just disagree w you on the premise. You would be lying to say you haven't done something just as "bad." So unless you're going to confess to all of your wrongdoings in a reply, you might want to reconsider the severity of what I'm doing. We all choose to toe the line in different areas.

 

see above, might wanna follow your own advice and read a little slower.

and you know what, i'll add some shit to it, my music, that has been published worldwide on a denver based label, contains loads of voice samples from everywhere, if i think i can use it i will use it and sometimes i'll base an entire song around a sample taken from a movie, tv-show, porn movie, whatever. is it wrong? yes. am i hurting anyone? nope. will i be sued? nope, simply because i don't earn enough to make it worth for them to sue me. you on the other hand will hurt the buyer and leave him or her with empty hands, can you be sued for that? yes, why? because you knowingly took money (once you have sold it) from an individual who most likely will be left empty handed.



oh darn, i think my horse just took a shit on your head, sorry bout that.

edit: well i'll be damned, i'm so used to pirating that i actually forgot that, since i joined audiolovemaking, i've bought several vst's not to mention the hardware i own. what can i say, i may not have a parrot but i do have a cat that likes to sit on my shoulder.

 

Last edited: Oct 1, 2021

It's your fault for accepting some terms without reading them.
They ask you to accept them before buying it on their website, or before you register a serial number.

Logic Pro doesn't offer lifetime free updates. It's just that they've been offering free updates for a while, because they wanted.
Also, they don't allow you to resell it either.

Not exactly. For what I'm understanding (using a translator, and the text doesn't make much sense) it means you can buy digital goods (ex: some software that needs a serial number to use it) and even if the developer doesn't allow the resale, you're legally allowed to resell it to someone else and you wouldn't be committing any "crimes".
But, the seller can still block the account.

Steam has similar policies. And I'm sure they know better.
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/7E78-08DB-AC21-CE32
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/369C-3E9F-76FD-DEDA

 

aye man agree to disagree. I personally think it's ironic that you want to police other people for doing something not perfectly ethical while admitting to doing some yourself. You aren't gonna change my mind on the severity of selling a paid-for fl studio license that is going unused to someone who can't afford to buy the real thing anyway. While assuming the risk, as I said earlier, should something go wrong.

I hear you. I agree it's not conventionally right. Good luck tryna preach to the choir when you play with the devil yourself.

 

Also, for the record on owning vs renting. IL is not a bad company. It is very much hidden that you don't actually own the software though. When I bought it from a retailer, the big button on the website said "BUY" not "RENT." The money was gone before I even had a chance to read the fine print. I don't blame people for siding with a company that they believe to be fair but let's not pretend that they aren't a little shady w this. We should protect consumers and allow them to own the things they buy. Companies are trying more and more to make it impossible to own anything. A huge part of the reason FL is so popular today is because of how easy it was to pirate for such a long time. If they wanted to secure it that bad--they would. It is not hard to make the software more secure and resilient to pirating, but they are happy to allow it to happen because they see it as a business opportunity. One that comes at the expense of the people who actually bought the software while their friend used it for free. Two wrongs don't make a right, and IL gives a lot more than many companies in terms of updates. If they want to make an example of my account then so be it (I'm assuming the risk). Let's not lose the rights of the consumer in the defence of a corporation. There are lots of things in TOS of many things that most people would think are off and they don't know when signing up.

 

still ignoring the fact that you knowingly and willingly are prepared to take money from someone that puts their trust in you to sell them a working license that has a chance of getting blocked leaving them without a working product and without money they could have saved up to buy a legit license. is this so hard to comprehend? this is not siding with a company, it's siding with a consumer who might fall also i dont play with the devil, i play with one thing at it doesnt have horns and def not in front of a choir

now in case you're wondering why i'm being such an asshole (or in your words: the devil)

 

No, it's you who gave them money. They didn't force you to do it. Not yours? Why not to demo it first? Their demo is time unlimited, you just can't reopen saved projects. At the worst you could "try" cracked version to see if it is yours or it isn't.

First you buy it without looking at it, then you blame others...



P. S. I personally used cracked FL Studio for several years before I bought it.

 

Last edited: Oct 1, 2021

Pleas read my post again also the imprint (if you can call it so )
15-20 Years is similar to lifetime for me

And even after that since, they go more and more in a money through Hardware way (OS updates are free even after whole nummbers )
They use Logic Pro to sell there Hardware
So we will see in 5 Years or so if Logic Pro 11 (if they call it so which also unlikely) will be a free update

 

Sorry I was a bit lazy to google the pdf in all languages of the EU, but they actually exist.

This wasn't a decision about a crime but about the legal rights of a software vendor and those of a licensee.

The decision In short:
If a vendor sells a product license regardless if downloadable or on CD ect. his right in monetizing this single license ist exhausted.full stop. He is not entitled for a second, third, fourth fee, if a license is sold. The vendor is not allowed to forbid the licensee to sell the license.

If you read the text (from 2012) up to the end you'll find in the last paragraph that this is a preliminary ruling of the European Court of Justice, which is binding for the member states of the EU, but must be implemented by them in national law.
This means that in each EU country you must first go to a court, which then has to make a compliant decision.
Of course there is no guarantee that this will be liked by the seller or the licensee.

And of course I won't suggest someone to buy a used license until this is decided positively by the software vendor/developer. *

However, at least for Germany there are already base decisions of the German Federal Court of Justice on this topic, which state that the sale of a software license is ok in all aspects and the seller must transfer the license to the new licensee.
All major vendors have already had to accept this - even though they resisted it for a long time - and now allow license transfers.
IDK if all EU members reacted accordingly but EU is quite strict when member states fail to do so. So chances are good, all EU members have - after 9 years - compliant laws or court decisions in this matter.

Of course, as a software vendor, you can continue to argue, but a High Court will hardly be impressed by arguments that are supposed to restrict the lawful licensee's rights e.g. if a vendor won't give that licensee no access to his licensed digital goods (and may them be on their server)
The EU has made some landmark decisions in recent years to protect consumer rights and is unlikely to be persuaded by a small Belgian company to change that.

As a user of legal software, I welcome this decision because it ends the power imbalance between the software producer and the end user. Now no vendor needs to grant(!) me a sale of a software license, but I have a right to it.


*) As I said in a post above, I faced the same dilemma with Autodesk years ago. However, as a seller, I took the trouble to enforce it and didn't leave it up to the buyer.

 

Last edited: Oct 1, 2021

holy shit the bootlicking people are capable of, how do you not throw up

 

why don't you just change the email address of your flstudio profile with your buyers email address