That pulled me out of my recent depressive state.
Wait a minute, there's an odd side effect to it... am I smiling while reading it through? Damn. Thanks anyway.

Anyhow, is it a weird idea to consider a collab midi-pack of our own?

 

Yeah, so essential - it was like never used until modern metal genre was invented... and noone cried it was needed for anything.
About the usage of the other modes - I am not sure there is one way to use them, you are probably in the jazz style of playing which for example produces completely different effect on listeners than modes played in old church music or folk music fashion (Irish music etc). I don't know how they used Dorian mode in the pack, but are there any rules in music as long as it sounds fine in the end? I don't think so. So, saying a certain way of playing a mode is conceptually wrong is a bit of a stretch. It can be wrong only in a certain limited stylistic convention where various rules for what is considered right are accepted on pre-compositional level.

Anyway, I find the whole discussion about midi packs and essential scale too funny - people have done wonderful things with limited resources (pentatonic scales, local folk music scales, sticking to simply major+melodic+harmonic minor...). It is about putting musical resources in real musical action - no midi pack can do this unless they basically sell you compositions to demonstrate what you can actually do with chords.

 

I'm sorry I didn't understand what you wrote, but I'll ask that question one more time. Anyone willing, can answer it.

Is there only one correct way to work with notes, or can anyone work with notes as they wish? If there's only one, so what's that correct way? And why? And who determines what's right?

 

Pe nistionse autaquis molore suntur, quid quideli sciminis verum quiderum volorum exerum andi coris sita eumque vollace aquam, consedit estiatur?

Derionserati rat vel ipsae. Ut liquunt ommoluptat plitiis is maxim doluptia ius, sitia corepel id ullatur sequo qui te ipsam aboruptaquo beaquibus alitionsed minvelit et labo. Eceptas perorporem ilisquiam, quis sin nos et, voluptat.

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Lam voluptatur aut harum etur aut everunto consequi dolore, qui debistia conseni squibus.

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EDIT: i wrote quassequi when i meant teceaquae. an easy mistake to make when talking about music.

 

Last edited: Sep 6, 2021

Well I was being a bit Sarcastic there, like.. Since it will probably get you Nowhere,
at least it could have the redeeming quality of making you take matters on your own, and Learn the stuff properly..

I haven't heard the Examples they provide, but I can imagine what could be the main problem: Functional Harmony..
(and that's also a possible answer to Marseilles..)

Just because there's a mathematical number of all the possible distributions of the 7 chords in a given mode,
doesn't mean all the progressions will be correct/sound good.. it's all about physics, timing, and the way our brain interprets the stuff.

And even tho Modal Functional Harmony is quite an obscure topic, hardly ever talked about, it Exists.

Chords will work/lead in one way in say a Ionian or Eolian context, (the usual stuff we're taught)
but will work/lead differently for other modes like Mixolydian, Phrygian, Lydian, etc..
and that is something that needs to be empirically evaluated/tested, and studied if you will, until one gets the hang of it.

(I don't think a compendium/thesaurus exists of all the Functional/harmonic possibilities of all the Modes other than Ionian/Eolian,
or at least I haven't found it.. and also consider the modes of melodic minor, harmonic minor, harmonic major, major locrian etc etc..)

But yeah, not all chord progressions will necessarily make sense, or sound as good,
just because they're a mathematical possibility..

And then there's other topics like Chord voicing/Decoration and Tessitura,
how are those chords decorated, and how are those notes distributed.. this can also be very defining/determining.

I don't know the MIDI pack, I don't know what's inside,
but judgin by the dubious quality, it's very possible none of it has been taken into account..


And just to put the last nail in the coffin, think about Time Signatures,
and all the possibilities that they could/would offer in terms of distributing the chords of a progression.

It's one thing to put 4 chords in 4 bars, and call it a day.
But there's an entire universe of possibilities beyond that, specially considering other time sigs like whatever..
3/4, 5/4, 6/8, 7/8, 9/8, 11/8, 12/8, 13/8.. and all the possible amalgamas of those rhythms that could be used to create compound grooves..

I don't think this MIDI pack could ever address that, because the number of options is so Big,
having them all catalogued will just defeat its own purpose of being a practical/useful tool..

(and anyway, Beatmeikas will hardly ever do anything else than 4/4,
or 2/4 or 12/8, if they got Lucky with their mindless experimentation..)

 

Last edited: Sep 6, 2021

"Ibus vellist arum quatem. Nam corporae perior aut aturiti orrovid molendis simus, idemo teceaquae ne sitisci picaborro eaque etus et, solorepuda cuptasp edisque simi, ercimenihil moluptatem doloris dolupta quamus as rent omnia secaecati dolecae rspera eliquo corenis nam,"

That's actually interesting.. lol
it could even work on a Death Metal lyric or something..


"Icha tIn giue he racfterys ntils rosr caou htgie stlemh etesdesa?"
And this one Kills Google Translate..
it thinks it's Greek and changes the alphabet for the translation too

 

Last edited: Sep 6, 2021

Would you be so kind as to code switch your vernacular epic to simple English?

 

Back to original topic - from what I have learned (some part of it is original research) during my microtonal music exploration -
the only way to expand "diatonic" tonality is to use 12 notes unequal tuning in meantone, dominant or flattone temperament. (While this gives new resources, it is also limiting in some way - it's equivalent to a culture using 7 ET to adopt 12 ET diatonic heptatonic as 7 ET alternative without being able to access the whole gamut of 12 ET), that's why most keyboards in Italy during Renaissance era had like 14 keys (or more) with split black keys.
12 ET itself supports some alternative non-diatonic systems that don't require too much thinking- the first one is the 10 note Messiaen symmetrical decatonic mode of limited transposition, the other one is trivial - chain of 11 chromatic semitones.
Stuff like augmented and diminished scales is more alien - they are related to the ancient Greek theory of chromatic and enharmonic type of genus and require thinking in a new way about major and minor triads (and their inversions).

 

Please R2R or RET decrypt this for us. Anyways, looks a lot like I'm gonna disagree

 

Re: Modal Functional Harmony

Tying these various fragments together...

As informal as it gets... when exploring diatonic cycles of fifths with targets other than major / minor
i.e., modes other than Ionian or Aeolian
I find myself resorting to a kind of semi-cadence fudge whereby the chord progression is travelling in diatonic fifths but then resorts to some stepwise (tone) moves as it targets the (pseudo) tonic of the mode.

Any prizes for the sloppiest blueprint presented so far?

 

Alright, I'll let the biasing over the picked statement to slide... this time around.

Check Debussy, Sibelius and other composers from early 20th century before attributing the Locrian mode "usage discovery" to modern metal genre.

That's the way you have chosen to fit in your own context, not that I've written that ever.

It doesn't matter the genre. A mode is a mode = specific set of intervals, which in turn can be harmonized (voiced), therefore arpeggiated.

If you take that in consideration, you're able to trigger its qualitative sound, over itself (typical), or superimposed to others = the "jazz effect" as you've mentioned.

Check the mentioned content first and foremost. If one's aim is to sound Dorian, there are specific rules, as I have demonstrated before in this thread - to sound "dorian-ish" is a diffent thing, thus a different goal. Otoh, if "sounding fine" is the goal, play whaterver suits you and make you feel you're in modal territory, but you won't be if unaware of your choices, which defeats the purpose of the mode qualities usage afterall.

I hope you find the following content "funny", as usual.

E Major - Triadic Voicings




E Major - 7ths Tetrachords



E Major - 6ths Tetrachords



E Major - Pentachords by superimposing 7ths and 6ths - generates 2 minor modes




E MODAL - Quartal Pentachords



* Sound examples attached.

Quickly getting back to LOCRIAN: melodically, you may trigger its qualitative sound / mood, by plying EM7(13) and AM7(#11) arpeggios over the D#°7 tetrachord. The same concept applies to the other modes.

Hopefully that will offer a glimpse over what modalism is about.


Cheers

 

Sound files attached.

 

It's an anagram regarding your question:

- Icha tIn giue he racfterys ntils rosr caou htgie stlemh etesdesa?

Meaning:

- If I use the characters in this order can you still get the message?

 

.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2021

It doesn't answer the question.

You impart authenticity to some approaches and frameworks and reject other readings and directions? What's your logic for that? Are you one-track bloody-minded?

 

My bad, I've missed it.

Indeed. Spot on.

Sure, it can be one of the criterias, but there are many more based upon more musical ones.

Math solves time signatures and tuning temperaments quite well, but for composing... not my cup of tea.

It does... it belongs in that Black Grimoire.

Harmony study: a game-changer.

Absolutely. The father of all nails. We should discuss this more often / to start including it in our own examples.

Considering that the Major/minor scale alone produces over than 200 useful/applicable voicings...


Great insights as usual.

Cheers

 

This sounds like a musical poem. Latin is a beautiful language indeed.

Unfortunately I didn't grasp shit...

Anyhow, sublata causa tollitur effectus.

Cheers

 

Sure.

 

@Marseilles
@Providence
@HERMES Mercury
@Denali
@Fully Operational
@Foster

Yes it does, in multiple ways. Think it through.

Let's say, for you, I've got a Studer 10 inch multitrack.

 

This advice sounds very prescriptive. Is that a good thing or bad thing? Probably both.
There's a wonderful tirade in one of Schoenberg's traditional tonal harmony books from about 100 years ago where he spends many many pages arguing against the prevailing rules - and all he's trying to do is persuade the establishment that a ninth really is a chord in the same way that a seventh is. Clearly the establishment had a set of prescriptive rules that were simultaneously brilliant but also too restrictive and needed to chill out!
So, I find your alleged differences between 'dorian' and 'dorian(ish)' interesting but won't know whether I like or not without more detail. (I'm not pushing for more detail - it's just an observation)

p.s.
I would have preferred a bit of gold leaf on my throne - and one bog roll won't be enough.

p.p.s
Well spotted with Marseilles - Foster.
I did think the same on his first post but was too generous-cautious.