Creating music using illegal content

Discussion in 'Education' started by angeldummy, Jul 4, 2012.

  1. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Yo, scouse bro!
    No. You may want to start at page 1.
    edit: Apologies, I initially mistook you for another member.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
  2. RitchieM

    RitchieM Rock Star

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    Hahaha :rofl:

    I just can’t see how if I am playing a viola part from an NI library with say another 8 instruments in there, effects, further processing during “mastering” and then conversion to a different format, that when the track is played back that any embedded code in a sample wouldn’t be distorted beyond recognition. I don’t doubt that with a completed mix, then adding something inaudible over the top would work and stay present, but I just can’t see how it would be possible with a sampled instrument in a mix. Again, would love to be educated with examples of how it could both be inserted into a sample and then be detected, because that’s some clever shit!
     
  3. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Which is impossible to do for each and every buyer of a lib, as I have already said.
    Which is why it is done how I said.
     
  4. recycle

    recycle Guest

    I haven't gone into watermarking so much to know where are the limits. That experiment with the audiosex logo is quite lame, there are much more sophisticated systems to achieve this.
    What is important to know, especially being a sound engineer, that these digital watermarking techniques are a reality
    if you want to learn more, start here:

    https://medium.com/intrasonics/hiding-data-in-sound-c8db3de5d6e0

    https://www.sciencegate.app/document/10.1007/978-981-13-9714-1_16
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2021
  5. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Yes. Just not in Kontakt libraries, is all.
    The only thing I've ever thought about all this is if ALL the samples by default are watermarked as SFA Strings, or 8dio etc...So at least they know it belongs to their company.
    But the metadata in the .nicnt would be the only thing to link it to that person.
    Unless they release the tune commercially!

    Bear in mind the first link talks of just a released track; not the individual instruments.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  6. recycle

    recycle Guest

    I don't know if Kontakt per se can have this kind of protection. I imagine that each library company then develops its own strategy.
    From what I know, Nexus 3 is permanently watermarked with user data
     
  7. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Great!
    After recent developments reFX should be raking it in bigtime soon, from the court cases of all the non-legit newbs who didn't pay for it!
    Really only a handful of the bigger, long-timers.
    None of the non Powered By Kontakt libraries have any protection let alone watermarking.
     
  8. RitchieM

    RitchieM Rock Star

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    will be having a read, thank you!

    I was thinking after I posted that, I can’t recall seeing anything about people that have released music with warez’d content being busted, and let’s be honest, with how music is made these days, it’s going to happen. Maybe it’s all just scare stories we tell ourselves??? I can see why a sample library creator would use this to track if a cracked version appeared, but detection within the context of use in a track, it just seems that not only would the watermark be lost in that context, scanning each track produced in the last 10 years, looking for say a 1 second long sample in a mix with 10 other instruments, surely it would consume a LOT of resources even with automated systems and be financially impossible for pretty much all companies unless you are Google? Again, if you have examples, please say as it is interesting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  9. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Spoke about this before.
    A supplier on the sister site or ru was found out.
    I think it may have been an 8Dio library. Others more in the scene will know and remember.
    If Gyro was here, or Wasgedn, I could find the source.
    I did read about it at the tracker though.

    And it was exactly because of the reasons I have mentioned multiple times above.
     
  10. RitchieM

    RitchieM Rock Star

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    In the context of a song or sharing a library?
     
  11. Tamil Boi

    Tamil Boi Ultrasonic

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    Yes, if you dont give credits to the cracker on everysong and beat you put out using the cracked VST
     
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  12. droplet

    droplet Rock Star

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    like thinking using ideas.
     
  13. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    So I guess I mean sharing a library!
    I honestly think you're just having a laff now! lol
    Stop 'mithering', pal. lol. joke. :winker:
     
  14. RitchieM

    RitchieM Rock Star

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    No, just trying to educate myself as it’s good to know. I can definitely see it in terms of sharing a library, just can’t see it if it’s used within a song.
     
  15. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    That's what I want to know, too.
    If SFA or 8Dio do actually just sonically add something undetectable to the ear, to ALL the samples, then at least they may be able to recog if some strings or whatever in a track are theirs.
    But it would only be useful if the .nicnt has metadata in it.
    So it is traceable to the buyer. Or, well, I can think of other situations where all the people who received what the supplier shared will not be able to prove purchase, but the company will already know where it came from initially.
    And I'm sure you've thought all this out before, which is why you have maybe come to the conclusion I have...
    Which is that I think there may be a lot of hot air about it.
    But in regards algos for songs to be recognised, The Pirate mentioned a whole list of companies that deal with that.
    It's earlier on in this thread.
    So that side of it exists at least!

    Soz, just wanted to use the word mithering coz I know you must know the word!
    It's a cool word!
     
  16. RobertoCavally

    RobertoCavally Rock Star

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    I know of both cases. A "colleague" of mine was caught using a lib in a composition. And many of those who shared. There was a thread on VI-Control, where a dev was talking bout how they sent a "fake upgrade" to a "suspect" and got him when he shared it, lol
     
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  17. RitchieM

    RitchieM Rock Star

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    i saw that on VI Control, and can definitely see why devs would do that to prevent the library being shared. Detecting in a composition, that has to be hard if there are a lot of instruments. What was the outcome?
     
  18. RitchieM

    RitchieM Rock Star

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    I have no doubt that alone, they can detect, but in the context of a mix, given how the likes of Shazam works, it’s just not easy or practical.

    Mithering is a great word, but more of a Lancashire thing. I live between Liverpool and Wigan, with lots of family from Lancashire, so the term is used a lot but combined with profanity, so you would say someone is a proper mithering cunt for example. It’s very flexible hahahaha
     
  19. RobertoCavally

    RobertoCavally Rock Star

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    It's quite similar to the situation someone else described here.. basically they go nagging to producers, publishers esp. if it is some film/vid music. I don't know what deal they made with them. Nobody discloses that. For the composer it usually means the producers will avoid working with them in the future. There was no lawsuit, but the bosses may have had to shell out.. :dunno:
     
  20. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    This is now ringing bells for me. May be the same incident I read about too.
    @RitchieM All the mancs and scousers I know down here in Devon say it.
    My mate says to his dog when she wants attention "Stop mithering!"
     
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