Minified and Rollerball versions of Kontakt libraries

Discussion in 'Kontakt' started by Bunford, Jul 29, 2021.

  1. Bunford

    Bunford Audiosexual

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    Hi there,

    I'm just seeking some advice on these. I have a studio-like desktop where I store full versions of libraries, but these days am finding myself using a laptop more and more.

    What are these libraries like for using to create mockups etc? Any pros/cons? In using a laptop, the smaller size obviously makes them more appealing to not have to lug around external hard drives etc along with the laptop.

    Do they work the same as the main libraries (though I assume how lower bit rate samples, edited tails of samples, limited mic positions and so on)?

    Any advice before I look to grab from the sister site would be hugely appreciated!

    Cheers in advance :wink:

     
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  3. Bunford

    Bunford Audiosexual

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    Anyone?
     
  4. rudolph

    rudolph Audiosexual

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    My best advice is try for yourself. What works for someone may not work for you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
  5. boogiewoogie

    boogiewoogie Platinum Record

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    Well it is the same library, but just with the main most useful mic position instead of a bazillion of them :)
     
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  6. rollerball

    rollerball Platinum Record

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    Best Answer
    Hey there!

    There's a slight difference to both the series of modified libraries. The "rollerball's Lite Version" (rLV) libraries are made by me, whereas the "Minified" versions are made by @embryo.

    In the rLV libraries, my main goal is to reduce the size of the libraries by removing the "unnecessary" mic positions and by bit-depth reduction. Barring a few cases, most of the time I like to keep the Close and the Decca/Tree/Stage mics, as I believe they give you the intended sound of the library with the proper positioning of instruments, and can be mixed to taste for a variety of possibilities. I tend to remove the Room/Ambient/Reverb mics, as more often than not, they can easily be replaced by a competent reverb plugin. I also like to remove the default Mix if present, as in most cases it's easy to dial something similar from the included mics, and many a times it's just not what I'm looking for and is hard to make it fit in my context.

    I also reduce the bit-depth from 24-bit to 16-bit, as to my ears there's not really a difference between the two, and the space savings are huge for 16-bit files. There is a dither applied during the bit-depth conversion process. Of course, this does bring up the noise floor ever so slightly, but it hasn't been an issue even with lots of simultaneous notes. In most cases, a null test results in a noise floor of -85dB.

    Other than the above, I try to keep everything in the library intact. I don't remove any articulations, no matter how sparingly they might be used, because it's better to have them when needed than not. Also, I don't cut the tails of the samples to save on space. After all that is done, I repack the samples into NKX containers, and try to maintain the minimum supported KONTAKT version while resaving the patches.



    On the other hand, "Minified" versions are very similar, but they are more suited to their author's usage. They mostly feature the Close mics only, and also contain the articulations necessary for the use of their author. To the best of my knowledge, the rest of the things are also done by him in a similar way

    Hope it was enough to make you decide on whether or not you want these alternate libraries, and which one of these would be more to your liking. If you have any questions about any of my releases, let me know! :wink:
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
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  7. Bunford

    Bunford Audiosexual

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    This is perfect and the info I was looking for. In that case, I will give them a go and the drive space saving is huge, and hopefully won't realise too much difference when using a laptop for mockups (before being transposed onto my main desktop where the full libraries can replace them if necessary.

    Huge thanks to both of you for this! Much appreciated!
     
  8. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    Means you got your Best Answer? :winker:
     
  9. Meric

    Meric Member

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    Hi, I'm relatively new here so hopefully, there's no rule against reviving an old post, I just didn't see a point in asking this in a separate thread when this already exists.

    How do you guys handle samples packaged into ncx containers? From what I know isn't that a Native Instruments exclusive thing that they don't let you create with normal Kontakt? I might be missing something obvious here but if anyone could throw me a hint as to how to repack into nkx after editing that would be great!
     
  10. happyoung

    happyoung Newbie

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    Hey rollerball! Have you been busy lately? It's been a while since I've seen new rollerball's Lite Version, and your tutorials.:sad:
     
  11. josenacha

    josenacha Producer

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  12. rollerball

    rollerball Platinum Record

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    Hey! Yes, I've been quite busy with some things lately, but I finally have some time now. I'll try and get the tutorial in the coming few days hopefully.
     
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  13. happyoung

    happyoung Newbie

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    That’s great!:wink:
     
  14. shovelh34d

    shovelh34d Noisemaker

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    wow! I am so much looking forward to this rollerball! Thanks in advance and for all your efforts! <3
     
  15. akbarz

    akbarz Ultrasonic

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    I can make a tutorial but I waited because rollerbar said he is making one, and I don't want to waste his effort.
    If, If he doesn't make it eventually, pm me and I will make it.
     
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  16. Meric

    Meric Member

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    I've begun working on a python script that more or less handles the majority of the work for the user. Does anyone have any thoughts on possible changes or improvements or any additional features I can add?


    1. User must manually use inNKX to convert nkx to ncw files. I don't think there's a way around this, unfortunately. If you know of a way to automate, please let me know.
    2. User inputs config options into script. These include
    2.a: Setting the root directory of the samples they wish to minimize
    2.b: Setting the microphone positions they wish to delete
    2.c: Setting the whitelist for files they wish to ignore. Any non ncw file is automatically included in this whitelist
    3. The script then first checks if the file is in the whitelist. If not it then checks if it's in the microphone deletion list. If so it replaces the file with a ~100byte empty ncw file. This is done instead of deleting the file so the user doesn't have to manually edit the nki to remove the empty zones. Finally it converts the remaining samples from 24bit to 16bit.
    4. The user must finally manually repack the ncw files into nkx.

    Pros of this method:
    Requires < 2GB overhead space, unlike batch collect samples which require you to have up to 2x the library space in additional storage. The only overhead you will need is converting nkx to ncw, which you can do one at a time.
    Requires 0 resaving of patches or manual work on that end.

    Cons:
    Files aren't truly deleted, so you don't gain perfect size reduction.
    If the mic is enabled it'll still play the empty file which can cause some additional CPU usage.

    Everything works pretty well so far, I just need to finalize and create a simple UI as well as package it into an executable. The tool will be windows only

    Any thoughts?
     
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  17. RA FI

    RA FI Newbie

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    It would be very helpful if you make a complete video tutorial
     
  18. Meric

    Meric Member

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    Yes I will probably try and do that. It may take me a bit more time since I have been busy with a few other things. The GUI certainly won't be out for a bit, but I can probably clean the script up a little and just release it as a command-line thing.

    I will try and do this sometime next week or so.

    I've also been thinking of a few new features and one that I figured I could probably aim to add in the future would be something like mic merge (Like how Orchestral Tools does it)

    Of course the issue is remapping patches with those so I think if you make a mic merge it would have to replace a mic signal, but considering that the applications main use in the first place is to save space I assume most people will already have deleted a mic signal or so.

    This won't be included in the first release and probably won't be done for a while.
     
  19. DonaldTwain

    DonaldTwain Kapellmeister

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    When the script is complete and ready for use, can you please explain what inNKX is, where to get it, and how to use it to pack and unpack, because I just had a go and it's quite difficult to understand.
     
  20. Meric

    Meric Member

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    Yes will do. inNKX is actually quite simple to use once you get a few ideas sorted out.
    Bob Dule made a nice video that you can look at in the meantime though:


    You can skip the first part about making nicnt files. That is unrelated
     
  21. rollerball

    rollerball Platinum Record

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