Creativity vs Madness?

 

Rudolf Brauer Sextett- Der lange Abschied

[0739] Jandek - Ready for the House (1978)

 

Last edited: Jul 21, 2021

The Residents are not outsider art.

 

Thanks for the hint - I corrected it!

Jandek - You Walk Alone (FULL ALBUM)

 

You want modern outsider music? there's plenty here

 

I saw that same mini doc and I thought it's worth everyone's time to watch because it's an interesting topic I hadn't known about before.

 

Foreign Keys (1985)

 

Highly recommend Songs in the Key of Z by Irwin Chusid.

Book + 2CDs. It's well written, interesting and, well, insane. In my opinion the best treatise written on the subject.

*edit:* Here's the chapter list:

1 The Shaggs
2 Tiny Tim
3 Jack Mudurian
4 Joe Meek
5 Song Poems
6 The Cherry Sisters
7 Jandek
8 Daniel Johnston
9 Harry Partch
10 Wesley Willis
11 Syd Barrett
12 Eilert Pilarm
13 Lucia Pamela
14 Captain Beefheart
15 Shooby Taylor, the Human Horn
16 Florence Foster Jenkins
17 The Legendary Stardust Cowboy
18 Robert Graettinger
19 B. J. Snowden
20 Wild Man Fischer
21 Snapshots in Sound

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2021

Hasil Adkins:

 

Syd Barrett and Captain Beefheart?
I mean sure, they did music that was out there, but if we're gonna count every original quirky musician as outsider, the list would be ten miles long.

 

Sure, I agree. And I don't envy the author or the editor on choosing who to feature, as it's an impossible task.

However, the book uses them as a framing device and for context:

and

 

I was an early adopter ...

 

Actually I was thinking in Syd Barret, it's strange, he could do pop hits at the beggining, but this is pure outsider music, very rare video from 1967 including an odd interview.

Pink Floyd with Syd Barret - Astronomy Domain, Live in BBC 1 1967 unnedited

Another worth to mention is Florcita Motuda, he is notable creative and kitsch without a defined style, but he also studied music played in orchestra and he also taught music in Chile, he is very extravagant but beloved and also inspiration for many groups.

 

Last edited: Jul 22, 2021

This sounds pretty fresh and quite outsider, I didn't knew that term before watching that documental, I thought of kid's music, quite innocent and pure

2019 hoon - summer child

 

To me that's not ousider music. Of course I'm aware this is purely subjective, so not saying you're wrong or anything.

As I said earlier, the music is definitely out there. But outsider art in general, to me, is characterized by a total disconnect from what's accepted as artistic tradition, be it academic or mainstream. You could say that avant-garde is also disconnected from tradition, and you'd be right. The difference, in my opinion, is that avant-garde artists are aware of the traditions they're breaking from, whereas outsiders often haven't a clue.

Syd was, to a certain extent, very well aware of past music. The name Pink Floyd comes from jazz artists as I'm sure you know. Moreover, he wasn't the only musician in PF. Richard Wright had a formal musical education, and his contribution to the band's sound was, in my opinion, more crucial than any other member -well, at least in the post-Barrett era.

You posted Astronomy Domine, which is probably my fav tune from the Syd era. It's extremely psychedelic, but at no point does it feel like these guys operate in a completely different reality where musical tradition doesn't exist. Their first album is full of trippy effects, but those didn't come out of the blue either. Even in the pop world, The Beatles released Tomorrow Never Knows a year earlier, and if you look at the avant-garde electronic world, there had been decades of experiments that paved the way to an album like Piper.

Syd's solo albums are closer to outsider music in my opinion. He's still accompanied by professional musicians (and some pretty amazing ones at this), but his mental issues were much graver at that point, his mind is more scattered, and you feel it in the music which feels completely devoid of any direction at some points.

Then again, to counter argue my own point, there are lots of outsider musicians who happen to have some musical background. Moondog is a great example.

So yeah. It's a difficult categorization to begin with. The only thing I can say with certainty is that The Shaggs are the best outsider band of all time.

 

Mini-doc featuring Chusid:

 

@triggerflipper yes, agree, I messed the concept of music outsider in my mind, I was including, his particular style to play guitar in astronomy domain and intelestelar overdrive, that is quite off but make it sound even more interesting, I mean he is playing as he is not really sure, not even the tempo or the tone, like in a trance and improvisation, actually this should be the core of Psychedelia, they were trying sort of tribal music, I mean what some indigenous cultures do to enter on trance while chanting, screaming, etc.

When I was kid I made a strange record with my brothers, was a combination of casual things, with cultrun, animal horns, flutes, quenas, but the cassette or the rack had a problem with the speed and the record had subtle speed/pitch changes, but I liked how it sound, so I added a guitar and percusion and then recorded over it some times, it sounds to me like music of gnomes so I added a kind of gnome voice talk and it was so freak that it gave me gossebumps, was super dark, strange, magic, other worldly, I really didn't want to show that song but I recorded it in the same cassette, of the other "normal" song with my brothers so they listened it and then showed to friends and then the gf of my father that is guitar player, waldorf/montessori teacher showed the song to his friends, I couldn't sing or repeat the gnome talk, it freaked me out and I was so shy, but then I tried to made something similar, but because the feelings that produced me, not something satanic but playing with some sort of unknown stuff, I wasn't self confident or focus when playing that kind of style so I messed the tone and the rhythm many times, and this is why I have that same kind of feeling wity syd barrett psyche songs, the ummagumma, bauhaus, entiuzerden neubauten, golden palominos, and a couple of other songs, creepy atmospheres. So my guess is that some of them felt the same while playing. I was also thinking in Thelonius Monk, he didn't play normally and his style was appreciated for few while alive, he also had some mental problems, it's not outsider but he also had geniality and madness at the same time.

I don't really like what Syd Barrett did in solo, I think he was brilliant in combination with the other members, I always recheck on Syd Barrett, I just listen a recording of them from 1965, not really the pink floyd style, but quite random blues.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1965:_Their_First_Recordings

 

Yeah Syd's guitar playing was definitely unique for his time. All the other psychedelic guitar heroes were strongly rooted in blues and to some extent jazz, but Syd was doing something totally different. However, it didn't come out of nowhere either. Syd was inspired to a certain extent by Keith Rowe's totally unorthodox style. For further reading : http://madcaplaughs.narod.ru/Articles/MInfl.htm

Free improvisation can definitely sound like people who have no idea what they're doing jerking off with instruments. I love it, most hate it.

Re : Theolonious Monk, yes, he was definitely thinking and playing outside the box. Yet he's among the top 3 most influential jazz musicians of all time, to the point where his outside explorations don't sound weird at all today.

 

I've spent the last 6 hours in a Jandek deep dive. Thank you.

 

If there is any REAL 'outsider music' being made today, it's probably censored.