I've been looking to get an old high-end workstation (or alternatively an arranger) to use both for its sounds (I'm trying to move away from VST samplers, please don't remind me that Kontakt exists) and as a MIDI controller and after a few days of looking at all the options for a little over/under 1000€ and discarding most Korg stuff (M3, Krome, PA1/2X, etc) I've set my sights on the good old Tyros 2 (the Tyros 3 genuinely sounds worse to me) and the Motif XF. Now, I'd use either of them primarily as controllers and for their sounds (so in the case of the Tyros I wouldn't use the arranger features too often) but I genuinely can't find a good comparison between the two. Is there anyone here who has used both? I'm mainly interested in the quality of the acoustic instruments and how the articulations play. (Yes, a Montage would be great. No, I don't want a MODX.)

 

Bumpity bump.

 

Funkity Funk.
Well I've used them all, and I'd say go for the Motif.
But then I've only used it onstage. Which it is great for, but I wouldn't use it so much in recording unless the project was a genre-specific one.
As a controller keyboard, still pretty basic imo. But fine for home recording.
If it wasn't for mentioning sounds, I could recommend a host of other hardware for a main controller keyboard.

 

I've never had a Tyros or a Yamaha Motif XF but I've had a Motif 6 (original) & I use software samplers.

I can tell you right now I loved my Motif 6, so I can imagine every Motif after that was even more kickass than the last. I loved the sounds on it plus all the extra features on it to death. The LCD screen on Motif's is small, much smaller than say a Roland or Korg equivalent in arrangement workstation keyboards.

But that's the only place imo where it lags behind & is harder to understand. One you get around the menu diving, it's just like muscle memory, you will just seamlessly remember what your hands should be doing on it quickly to a point where that small LCD screen is really all you need. It's phenomenal for live use too.

Having said all that, it's going to still feel like a gigantic inconvenience going from arranging & working in your sampler VS a hardware keyboard of that caliber because it will inevitably take you longer to do things than a computer. But I liked the keys on it & loved working on it until 1 keybed stopped working over a decade later.

I know I haven't really helped you decide on anything more than just giving you a heads up on some things.

Oh they are also still in service by Yamaha last time I checked, yes even the original Motif 6 so you can still get new parts & get fixes on them last time I remember. Which is an absolute Bitchin' move on Yammy's part.

 

Would you say the Motif's acoustic instruments (and their articulations) sound better than the Tyros 2's? I don't know what it is about the Tyros 2 but things like brass instruments and guitars still sound so good to my ears.

That's absolutely fine, I'm getting used to the JV-1080 and while it's not as quick as using a sampler it's definitely not as slow as I thought it would be. Also yeah, that's very nice of Yamaha. I asked Roland about a volume potentiometer in case I needed one and they basically said "tough luck".

 

I can't comment on a comparison but the sounds out of my original Motif were absolutely FAT. Full spectrum hardware sounds & it had expansions. Great real world instruments as well as synth sounds.

I never even used mine to the fullest to be honest. It was capable of alot more than I gave it credit for. I liked most of the vanilla patches on mine. Everything from all the orchestra sounds to the keys, synths, synth combos, layers. The bass sounds were made of canola oil is how fat they were.

Agreed, it's only slower at first as with all things that have a slight learning curve. I was a complete teapot when I got mine.

I tried reading the manual but it went way over my head so I gave up & got hands on with mine then ended up getting the hang of it all on my own within a couple of months given all the other things I was learning at the same time.

Which is saying alot, but you sound well above that paygrade so you will be able to get to grips with your manual easy. After that, it's smoother than butter bombing a hill high speed. There's a certain fun to be had with hardware, being able to lay hands on your gear is magical.

 

Just different. No better or worse really.
It may be contextual to various factors, but on the whole I prefer the Yammy and it's not just due to the sounds but the machine on the whole.

Exactly. Cut's through the mix live. Great for recording, especially for certain genres that utilise the Motif.
Anyway, Yamaha own Korg so you'll probably get good aftercare service either way.

 

But the Tyros 2 is a Yamaha too

 

Definitely agree.

That's what impressed me then, not the sounds on their own but when I reeled them into my DAW.

Damn, really? I never knew or read that anywhere. Mind sharing a link? There is actually some Korg & Roland gear I still want though so I'm not Yammy fan boy or anything but I'd be lying if I wasn't always secretly rooting & hoping for Yamaha to come deliver.

 

I know.
But you mentioned discarding the possibility of Korg stuff, when they are kind of linked already, which is why I mentioned it!
And you mentioned after-sales for parts being bad from Roland. If we can still get parts for Yamaha I imagine we will still be able to get Korg parts too. Which is why I was trying to broaden your possibilities.

 

Nah, I've heard the Korgs. They genuinely don't really interest me (which is disheartening, I'm a HUGE Korg fan) save for the M3 but even than that's not enough.

IIRC Yamaha USED to own enough shares to control Korg starting from 1987 and ending in 1993 when Tsutomu Kato repurchased most of the shares.

 

Wow that's crazy, I'd never known that before. Love learning something new. I'd always known them to be in competion with each other as their own company. But I also have never really looked past C5 Key when it came to brands.

 

From Wiki:
"Yamaha Corporation has always been a major partner of Korg, supplying them with circuitry and mechanical parts. In 1987, shortly before the release of the M1 Music Workstation, Yamaha acquired a controlling interest in Korg. The takeover of the company was amicable, with Kato drawing up the terms, and the two companies continued to independently develop their product lines and compete in the marketplace. After 5 successful years, Kato had sufficient funds to repurchase most of the Yamaha share in 1993.
Kato died of cancer on March 15, 2011."

They still had enough shares in 1999 when I was demo'ing instore for them.
I find it strange that on the Yamaha Wiki they say "which was bought out in 1993", when the Korg page say he repurchased MOST of the shares back.
When I was working for a dealer in '99 I was told that Yamaha still had shares in Korg.
I literally did think they owned them though, my mistake.

 

Last edited: Jan 28, 2021

They might have had shares back then or even to this day but definitely not enough to control them. I think the M1 sold so well that it was enough for Korg to shake Yamaha off of their backs.

 

That's utterly insane! Thanks for giving me that one to grow on.
I didn't know any of that at all, I actually think I have read some old article on Sound on Sound mentioning something about them sharing chips & parts.

Which of course I thought nothing of because I shrugged it off as something that's probably common place among business owners, that's the extent that I thought I knew. For the record I actually did search info to see if they Yammy owned Korg but nothing turned up in the search engine.

lol @ both WIki pages saying something slightly different.

 

Welp, I thought about it for a while.
I love the Tyros 2 but it's probably not a very wise investment considering the limited expandability so I'll have to wait until they go down in price a bit more.
The Motif XF6 costs 1200€ on the used market but I'd like to try to get a white XF7 (upgraded with the anniversary pack) since I'll probably regret not having an extra octave at some point.
Tyros 5 goes for 2000 to 2400, mostly ~2200 for a complete one with speakers and the memory upgrades Yamaha bundled in during the last production years.

I could save up for another half year or so for a Tyros 5 (and believe me, I love how the Tyros 5 sounds as well) but I doubt that it'd be worth the money since I wouldn't use 90% of its features. I've also heard that mixing sounds from the Tyros range with anything external can be a pain in the ass since they're specifically made to "cut through" themselves and have difficulty sitting in a mix.

So yeah, Motif XF it is. Maybe I'll get that Tyros 2 in the distant future (for shits and giggles just like I got my Korg M1) but I guess I can try the norCtrack Tyros 2 library for Kontakt (sigh) first and maybe convert some of the instruments to the XF format.

 

Update: I'm getting a white, barely used XF6 with a (sealed) Anniversary Pack and a carrying bag for 1400€ on the 27th assuming the guy can come to my region. All the XF7s on sale right now look like they've been barely cared for and I don't want to risk it. Extra octave would've been useful but I can hopefully repurpose my M1 to add a few more octaves. Shouldn't be too jarring to play since the FS/FSX actions are basically the same.

I tried the norCtrack libraries and they're abysmal. Apparently they recycle a lot of sounds throughout their libraries and that really sucks. I found a PSR-S900 Kontakt library that's honestly not that bad so I might convert some of that to the Motif format once I get it.

I also noticed that Montage6 prices are coming down to about 1800 bucks and it's honestly really tempting. I quite like the acoustic sounds on the Montage but there's something about them that doesn't sit right with me. For some reason a lot of them sound overly or even artificially bright to me, as if someone REALLY messed with the EQ or slapped on some odd multiband compressor on them. Does anyone else feel that way?

 

Last edited: Feb 23, 2021

Sounds like you got a "one careful prior owner" unit! Nice.
Talking about the Montage also, it is really powerful. But also really expensive for what it is I think.
It can send out 32 channels/16 stereo pairs to usb. And it bloody well should for that money!
How I'd use that onstage is how I use other multi-timbral AWM stuff.
Just keep the same channels for things like piano, ep, pads, etc.
When I first came across AWM I was selling and demoing for a Yamaha distributer.
I remember thinking they cut through the mix well. Some highs in there!
Of course, a lot of sounds use the compressor.
And also some units had a sub shelf in the eq too.
So maybe what you are describing is 'the sound' of them, I don't know.

 

I don't really know how to describe it. All the Motifs "cut" through the mix really nicely in all the demos I listened to but the Montage just sounds somewhat grating and overly bright, almost artificially so. I love the actual samples it has, especially the orchestral stuff but they just sound too bright. Best way I can describe it is like Beyerdynamic's murderous treble (of the DT990/DT1990 kind) but applied as an EQ. I listened to some more Montage demos and XS/XF demos and it's definitely only an issue on the Montage. It's a shame since I was seriously thinking about snagging a Montage 6 for a bit more than the XF (with the idea that I'd keep it for even longer) but I can already see myself lose my patience while trying to EQ everything back to "normal". It's the one thing I hate doing and I'm never satisfied with.