No me and my wife have a new born that is going through a sleep digression lol.. sorry if it took me a minute to get back to everyone.. one thing I hate to see.. and I kinda understand it and I kind of don't.. is people bashing people for giving their version of the answer.. I know its not good to spread wrong info.. and people are really passionate about music.. shit I am too id still be on drugs and a alcoholic if it wasn't for this and my child... but you guys really need to cut each other some slack.. we aren't cueing cancer..ya know?

 

Man I can't wait..for that its weird... I know alot of people here hate rap/trap because as far as melodies and chords.. its pretty basic stuff compared to other genres.. my strong suit has always been drums and sound design... so I've been able to get away with the lack of musical knowledge.. I plan on practicing for a half hour a day.. just running up the scale starting with triads

 

NO do not quit.
I know this inside out and I was getting annoyed at the so-called experts all missing exactly what it is about.
It is about you liking what you write and that it sounds good. If you limit yourself to a scale or one method think about it... The word "LIMIT"

Sticking to one of anything is? One. Limiting... Try everything.

 

I plan on putting my self out there and recording my entire process of me making atleast the shell of a beat and ill upload the video to here.. im really glad I found a group of guys that are at this level.. ill be able to actually show you where I get stuck and my thought process of why im doing what im doing.thats if you guys don't mind... I think it would be a quick and easier for you guys to be like "ya at 3:30 seconds in if you would of tried a Amin7th instead of a Fmaj you could of completed that chord"... just give me a few days and I'll upload a link

 

Same. Relative, just that the min7th is the 9th or sus2 with F.

My kindest advice is to say please stop believing this.
In any walk of life, we shut off from being an open, creative vessel if we choose to believe such things prior to their possibility.

 

Last edited: Jan 15, 2021

Okay, so I didn't remain neutral there and I referred to you personally.
But what I should have said, and was my point, was that even after many decades of success, not just 2 years, it is better to remain humbled unto something at least.
When we believe we 'know', we will constantly 'bang our head' and cannot seem to ascend or receive new knowledge or inspiration.
It would be a shame for you to have to go there so early on in your journey.
With musicianship especially, it is possible to learn from the person 'above' you, and also the person 'below' you.
This is a carry-over from sparring practice in martial arts!

The reason I felt to elaborate on this is because it came to my realisation last week that the majority of people I help here at AS and via Inbox are between the ages of 18 - 23.
A lot of them are coming from a place where they are programmed to believe that a certain plugin is the answer to them being an amazing artist or producer.
And they are from a world where it is implied it is fine to attempt to teach audio engineering skills on a platform with lossy-compressed audio!

So whilst the 'thing' I said above will resonate with you at your fatherly age of 36 @FrankWhite23, I would hope that some younger ones might see what I wrote.

Your thread topic needed this many comments. Especially when there were misunderstandings.
When something is understood correctly from the ground up, everything else all falls into place.
Which is also metaphorically what happens when one humbles oneself to Music.

 

if a book tells you "this is THE music theory" then it lies, and the person who wrote it doesnt even understand what "theory" means. ;)

...

the OP would not be the first one who is fixed a little on a specific key, mode, instrument or beat when jamming, improvising or composing, and to solve this issue (if you think it is one) the only way is through theory.

history, semantics and mathematical models are a valid form of "music theory" - saying "i dont need music theory, i make psytrance after youtube tutorials" is a "music theory", too.

but not thinking about anything at all before and during work doesnt help to change your habits.

if it would be a bit easer in practice, i would recommend someone who does not get minor "to work", to forget about 12 tone and try to compose a song or two in 19-tone ET.

it will open up a whole new world, and once you did that, you will have more self-confidence to try minor.

 

Last edited: Jan 18, 2021

he is just trolling over erratic parts and typos in my postings to avoid the real dicussion.

that in all scales (in the sense of tone ladder) all key of the 12 ton scale (in the sense of system) are allowed, only shows once more how releated all the modes are to each other.

in other words: you could give somebody new to music all 12 tones per octave which a piano or guitar offers and tell him "just do with it wht you want" - and he has tons of options already and will find his way through it.

 

As you know what you are doing, it's like learning to swim. Once you learn all the strokes and how to move in any direction without drowning, it becomes second nature. You do not think about it too much and get on with writing and performing and finding new ways to do things and perhaps even revitalize the old. There are many tunes out there which break every diatonic rule in the book. Even in popular music bands like Nirvana, Cobain created progressions harmonically that nobody in the right mind if educated would consider. So they got their own sound because of not just how they performed tunes but the structures were non-conformist. I did not particularly dig them that much but musically I admire the left-of-centre creativity for popular music. Stravinsky harmonizing with a b9 away (above) and many more doing things that are considered harmonically and diatonically incorrect, but they work.
Dizzy Gillespie playing an Ab major scale over a G7 and Coltrane playing a pentatonic scale a flattened fifth away from the dominant seventh chord - they all work because they all heard it and played it like it was meant to be there and made it work.
Scales are a great starting point and an important part of every musicians journey. the harmony that comes with it and all the substitutions thereof become more important on the journey.

To a seasoned musician who has done their ear training and understands their harmony, what they write if it is what they hear, will probably be correct - for that piece of music. To someone starting out, I agree that understanding an instrument through scales and harmony is essential, because it frees them up as they develop to step outside of the boundaries of the rules, because they know their harmony intimately and hear it perpetually.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2021

See above. You have it. As I said, it's like learning to swim. Metaphorically, there's no point learning flashy new swimming strokes that enable you to move faster if you do not know how to stay afloat and stop yourself from drowning. Making the core parts second nature is critical. The rest just comes down to what people term as writing from the heart and what you hear. To hear properly, you kinda have to know what it is you are hearing - as you well know.

 

the majory learns the basics or what they think that is.

then later they split into three groups:

- those who question what they have learned and try to add something own, and eventually find out that what they have learned before was only for the didactics, as in "just one working example", and thaht there is far more to learn or even try something own.

- those who find out that there is more, then feel like beeing fallen for fake news in the past, and now decide to only do the opposite of what they have been told.

- those who keep doing what they once learned for all their life, calling everything else "wrong" because they want to do it "right".

all three have once learned these same basics and all three might one day create a good composition.

 

thats what teachers do, not books

 

There are shortcuts in every discipline but what is important if it is skipped will always come back and bite the person bypassing the core on the rear. The person responsible for the adage of "In order to break the rules, you must learn them first" was correct.

 

i´ve been an anti-academic agitator for all my life, but professors regulary agree with my arguments. contradictionary? or unavoidable.

 

A true Professor always seeks to find that which has not been found and argues against that which is established sometimes in order to find the unknown, so I would be surprised if they did not agree with you, because they are in a perpetual argumentative state without ambiguity. Their findings will never be accepted unless they can prove what they found makes sense. You make sense. It's hard to disagree with logic, unless it is over-generalized and hinders progression.
Lets not go into politicians with that statement because that defies all logic...

 

You are discussing of a musical genre that is well defined, trap.
Now, if I'm not wrong, it's pretty streamlined and I don't understand all these suggestions to brake the limit of traditional scales nor involve microtonalities, but of course it's up to anyone taste to decide.
However as far as I understand, practical suggestions on chords/cadences is all you ask about, without frills.

Yeah, actually everyone's waiting for your new book "The truth about music theory that no one dared to reveal".

Oh btw, books on musical theory exist, and of course marketing rules sometimes impose funny titles, nonetheless on serious books (they exist too, incredible), more or less the same used in conservatory and music academy, you learn how to read a staff and a lot of other things including harmony theory that is just a part of the
whole.
Harmony itself, while is considered a set of rules, is actually a guideline, often dismissed, at times with benefits for the musical works, no one went in jail for that, at worst criticized.

No, sorry, I was pointing out that you were wrong about a simple Cm scale.

Typos? A typo is "wrung" instead of "wrong".
A repeated wrong formula is not a typo, is an error.

And if I'm trolling you should report it specifying clearly the reasons, click the link, bye.

 

You should consider living by your own words because what you put up as being the supposed only method is not even 1st year Bachelor level. The amount missing was substantial and you kept repeating the same formula which has advanced considerably since it was created.

P.S - The world has seen enough disinformation in the last four years to last a century.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2021

there is no need for me to write about that because it is already common sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory

which was and remains your main problem: you want to be right instead of understanding things.

this way you never learn something new.

look, how this thread started:

you dont even know the difference between a "scale" and a "chord", but when you are beeing told how things work you start to search for synthax errors in my math or question what the word "theory" means.

it is funny in a way, but it is not useful if you want to make any progress.

 

well, to be honest, this phenomen is limited to the subjects social sciene, philosophy, arts und music.

 

Being objective, it actually applies to any adventurer or searcher looking for a better or more efficient way to do anything. They start with the accepted normality, then step outside of the square.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2021