What do you fellow Audiosexers think separates a musician from a producer. I'm talking about a full-blown producer now, not a beat maker, not a dude who added a bass line on a track, and definitely not the dude who shelved -4db at 200Hz to clean up some garbage from an instrument or a mix. Don't bother in throwing in the business side of producers because I'm merely talking about the creative aspect. I'm sure you guys and gals know of a few producers that you've come across/heard of and wondered about what is going on in their heads. So now I leave it to you, hit me with your thoughts!

 

hmmm, well proper producers nowadays most often produce music for other 'acts'. I think what makes a musician is anyone who can make music using whatever. A humble old man from a village playing on his little guitar can also be a musician. Famous musicians end up becoming acts. Music Producers have the potential to help produce the musical side of these acts.

If you're a rock act, then most of the time the producer will just record your instruments and engineer them and will only be a producer. But sometimes producers can make music for themselves and become there own acts...

In the end I think a producer is just another type of musician who does things differently from say, a guitar player and a singer who are also musicians, but they choose to go out and be an act. And sometimes producers can do that too...

Make music they said, it will be fun...they said...

 

That's one of the many things my question is asking and wondering. You should elaborate on that, Xsze.

 

I ve been reading some lectures by edgard varese recently. Those guys like him were dreaming of what music technology we will have in he future, our times. THey fully realised the potential. Its staggering how Varese anticipated what new electronic medium will do for music. Starting from fundamental separation of composer and performer. I mean when you say producer in a modern sense it actually means this blend. You envisage the music, note it down in your sequencer and then use synthesis, processing etc to create the timbres and their performance.
On that note, I have to say that I felt a little bit embarrassed. Kinda felt like I disappointed my father or something. I mean the vision of Varese, Bussoni and others about the future of music was so optimistic. The things they would have done with a modern sequencer and synths... Back in those days Varese was struggling to make his music on whatever was available, like theremin, sirens god knows what. And now we have all the tools but instead we play a kind of musical lego. The read was trully inspirational. It gave me direction where my music shuld try to go.

 

Hi,

i'm Audio- and Mastering Engineer, not musician and not a producer, but you are right, there a lot of differences. I would never consider myself as musician, even i play an instrument. And I am not a producer, but i mix and master songs for anyone who need it. And i coach musicians in recording. Because during my work i've seen alot of studios where musicians work. They record and mix songs for other musicians. And this is a little problem which you can hear after the mix is done. The problem is, for example, if you are a bass player, you mix your instrument always louder and it will sound always a bit better then the rest of the mix. You don't do it on purpose, you do it unconsciously. It's the same with any musicians who are not producers ;-) you see, there is the difference between musicians, producers and audio-engineers. A audio-engineer is always objective to the sound. He will never give preference to one instrument. So, if you record at home, and give the tracks to a audio-engineer, you will always get a clean, transparent and good sounding mix, if the engineer is good of course. It's the same with mastering, by the way.

 

you are very wrong, and saying that your brain sucks at maths is not true, if you are a musician. You just convinced yourself to the contrary, probabily because of school days laziness. music is mathematics, when you are composing a melody the same part of the brain is turned on as when playing chess or solving mathematical problems. Furthermore, even the old classical masters had to study the theory of acoustics etc. Now that possibilities are opened to us to manipulate the music in ways that old masters could only dream of it is unacceptable to give up just because you have some preconceptions of your abilities. I mean if you are musically gifted, you will handle scientific part of it just fine. With all the resources outhere to teach you the production, there is really no excuse why you wouldnt take full control over your music. Remember, your music doesnt have to be changed by a different agent, like performer, producer etc. You can give it out in exactly the same way as you imagine it in your head. SO why not work hard and do it.

 

I'm glad you folks are enjoying the topic!


I agree with everyone's specific opinion and can associate myself with what you guys are saying. The reason for bringing such a topic up was to get more than just your normal musician's opinion that I get around town. That's why I knew that posting here would get more realistic opinions and thoughts on the matter at hand. I just find it odd that most local artist/musicians can't distinguish one from the other. Which is crazy because I've heard of and read about artist in the upper leagues being more open and willing to accept themselves as artist. Therefore leaving the slot completely open for the producer and mix engineer to work in peace. I think it all stems from from artist and musicians not wanting to give up their vision to someone else. Which is understandable because we all attach ourselves to what we put our heart , mind, and soul to doing. Don't want to get on a rant because what you guys written is so far what I think as well. Hopefully more peep's join in and shed some thought on this topic.

 

I recommend you to watch this
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=1373
its a very comprehensive introductionto relationship of maths and music.
the thing you recommended...michael buble, really... *no*
anyhow i can testify from my own experience. i used to play chess before. after two hours spent on the chessboard i was getting incredible slaps of inspiration. you could only compare it with inspiraton one gets when under the influence. in fact i still lack the ability to reproduce such music in my sequencer. thats why i gave up chess to concetrate on my production skills and then i will certanly go back to chess.
and i have to say, i never mentioned anything about mastering, but when it comes to mixing, and yes dynamics, textures, timbres, oh yes, i do want to have those things under my control. i mean, if you have a different enjoyment from music thats fair enough. i just wanted to give a recomendation that perhaps you can try getting technical. usually in everything one does there will be something boring, but you have to tackle it. i mean i find compressors very tedious, but i spend a lot of time practicing with them. it just has to be done

 

Hard question: they play different roles but there are for sure people that can play both of them. I think of my compositions in wagnerian terms: I know my ideas and I follow them through the different steps of their realization. Sometimes when you leave them to someone else they become totally different things. For example I remember what was called the "great piano scam" and one of the pianist who was plagiarized didn't recognize himself on the recording (he said it was a better pianist than him although it was just his track remastered).
This will never happen to me.

 

Hey, don_questo, I think what you are referring to is the almighty "zone". To reach such a plateau at a conscious level you don't need any sort of earthly training of the mind,drugs, let alone the understanding of math within music. That feeling is universal and it spans everything from chess to a game of call of dookie. I do agree that understanding more of the technical side is always a good thing, but I also respect the fact that it's not completely necessary when it comes to any form of self expression.


Also, if you fail to recognize Michael Buble's artistry.............shame on you!

 

I guess producers come in many shapes and various skill levels, just like musicians. But I do think producing also can be an art in itself.
If you look at really great producers, guys like Brian Eno or Flood, they don't just do some technical stuff. They have a very personal vision when it comes to shaping an album, a track or a sound.
If you have a producer like that I think they can add another dimension of creativity than somebody who's more strictly a composer or a musician, cause like Teletoby said they have a tendency to focus more on their own part than the big picture.
So in an ideal situation it will be a true collaboration between all involved, and what the producer hears will bring some fresh ideas and brand new inspiration that takes the project and the sound to a higher level.

 

It's funny you mention this, cause I watched a good japanese movie just this this weekend and the thing that really struck me was how they managed to take the most ordinary things and turn them into beautiful rituals that looked like art. Like simply dressing every day or making tea or taking a bath.
Made me wish I could be more like that instead of seeing ordinary things as boring repetitions one wants to avoid

Yeah there will always be a lot of difference between projects, depending on the music genre, artistic goals, timeframe, budget etc.
But if a good producer is given a decent chance to work with something I think it will always become a bit better, simply because he will add a certain perspective and experience that most musicians do not have.
Now sure there are also many producers who do not have this capacity, especially if it's early in their career, but I just went for a couple of exceptional guys here since ghostinthemachine said he was thinking in terms of full-blown creative producers.

 

The producer hears the ugly frequencies that the musician would be oblivious to. The musician hears/sees inspirational musical ideas and composes great melodies/chords ect. A great artist/producer can jump between the two tasks if/when needed and release hit after hit, all done on a computer.

 

bubly is ok I gues

 

I truly believe that. My phone for ex. passes me calls whenever he feels like, my car wants some caresses before starting the engine... They live their own life as I often say.

 

a musician licks the bum crack. A producer goes right in. i'm just too disgustingly hilarious!!!