It's good that 5950X dropped. That means 3950X becomes more affordable.

 

I found this funny because I'm wanting it so I can run an ssl plugin on every channel so possibly up to 40 ssl plugins just to start.
Add on other analog modelled plugins, virtual instruments (multiple instances of Diva, Omnisphere), parallel busses, fx, reverbs, amp simulators, tape emulators, mastering plugins all in one session with no having to bounce out audio.
It won't almost be like analog it will be better.

 

Sure and agreed, with one caveat. Because i have installed a gazillion of Intel sys, to be really honest perhaps 1% of the users will OC the Intel cpus (and any cpu for that matter) to their real potential. And that out-of-the-box 5.3ghz max freq of the 10900K is a fkn scam if you ask me, you 'd be lucky if it holds that for 15 secs lol. I tested three different 10900K cpus so far with everything, its best performance scenario is in gaming. Even with open loop and triple 140mm radiator the cpu will not hold even 5ghz for more than some seconds at stock settings.
So, i need to make this right somehow if i can.
When we talk cpus for audio production,recording, mixing etc, first and foremost we should consider the max SUSTAINED frequency and secondly IPC performance. To speak with numbers, at stock settings, all tests showed that even the 3900X outperforms the 10900K in everything but gaming and single thread scenarios. Why ? Because more real cores and slightly higher base freq-period. And really, guys, if daws were single thread depended we'd all be using my fkn Pentium 4 Extreme oc'd @ 4.5 ghz lol.
Supposedly the 10900K has an all core sustained freq of 4.8 ghz. I 've never seen any 10900K maintaining anything past 4.3-4.4 ghz with factory settings. Under OC yes it can of course but that's not the case we talk about. And really if i wanted a cpu that consumes 250w at 5ghz, i'd shoot for a Threadripper anyday or night and keep the 10900K just for gaming. Just as you 'll be hard to find a 3900X that hits 4.2 all core without oc. They mostly max out at 4.0-4.1 ghz. But let's make it stupid simple. 24 threads x 4.2ghz (alleged sustained boost) vs 20 threads of (alleged sustained boost) 4.8 ghz. 3900X equals ~101 ghz and 10900k equals 96 ghz. So they 're about the same, although the Intel cpu loses in almost all multi-threaded scenarios in all independent tests all around the globe, so what gives? Simple, the better 7 nm IPC design. And with the new series AMD just got almost 20% better. And now they 're just competing with themselves which is very "dangerous" for us end users. For real now, we need Intel to make a comeback hard because if they don't, judging by what AMD did this time around, they will keep raising their prices with each gen essentially becoming what Intel was before Ryzen.
So, i keep hearing single core this single core that, wtf is it you guys are smoking i want it too please, this is not 2000 guys and the days of Cubase 5 (and also the heroes of might and magic AiR-we make it right) are way past, no DAW is single core depended and tbh, personally, i don't give a fuck what Acustica say, i build, upgrade and maintain music and workstation comps on a regular basis and i test 'em thoroughly.
If the users can't scale their channels correctly or streamline their production in order to use the avail cores (which in the past would equal # of cpus), then they need a lesson in desktop production, realtime performance vs cpu performance, specific DAW intricacies, specific plugin performance and quirks, in a nutshell the works. Bored users who learned a few things here and there 5,10,15,20 yrs ago and claim to "make music" are not my concern, sadly they are the worse example of hobbyists, popping up just to make a presence and drop meaningless, unjustified one liners and we have a bunch of 'em here as well. "Blah blah this because i say so" and similar bullcrap flaming anything they dislike for their own -always inexplicable- reasons. So first we should really learn how to use what is avail to us and then make allegations of what is better.
The people who are interested and serious about their music will go the extra mile and learn how to use their comp's cpu cores efficiently in order to get the best of their systems. So, Acustica maybe top scientists when it comes to convolution algos but they need to optimize their plugs for performance. Seriously. And it's something yet to happen although they have improved a lot since the Nebula 2 days. Just look at Waves and how optimized are their plugs vs 10 yrs ago. In my Core 2 Quad Extreme (2.66ghz/8gb ram) i tested Waves 5 vs Waves 10 last year and i got 50-60% more performance with the latter using the very same plugs and it had nothing to do with 64bit having avail more ram since my ram was sitting at 2gb usage and to this extent 64bit plugs are more "hungry" in Windows than 32bit. Of course Acustica is a much smaller company but my example goes to show that optimization pays off and is -imho and to some extent- what makes Waves still relevant. Many will disagree of course, wth it's a free world
Rant over,
Cheers

 

you can do mostly anything with a 4 core cpu.
the problem is software. my daw can't keep up with the multicore cpu and can't properly utilize it.
hopefully there are updates along the way so it uses all my 24 cores properly.

 

There is an HUGE scalpers move on those 5xxxx Ryzen
Price increased to +30-50% : NO WAY !!!

Frankly, buy a previous generation second hand for half the price.
I even seen some on Aliexpress cheaper than locally ;)
Like those 3700X ones :
https://fr.aliexpress.com/wholesale...ortType=total_tranpro_desc&groupsort=1&page=1

And a nice motherboard (B550 or X570), to upgrade later.
I advice a mid range X570, like Gigabyte Pro
32GB RAM, if you can.

Remember : this is the LAST AM4 socket generation
Next one is AM5.

 

Makes me even more glad I got a 5900X for MSRP.

 

That's a very interesting number comparison. I may end up using Waves after 11 years

And about the Intel 10000 line, I totally believe you. Just by the fuck, sorry that word cames when I'm talking about certain companies, just by the fact that Intel had to squeeze their ancient 14nm designs to try to compete with AMD 3000 line. So it's no secret Intel last line has very little headroom left. They prefer to make them able to even overclock on one-single core than the true test of sustained full CPU usage, which they already lost. This last line is not a fact but a VERY educated opinion, and not mine.

I just upgraded my core components (CPU/RAM/mobo) and I had the same goal, but on the low end CPUs since I'm broke lately.
So like many people in my situation I was just going to buy the cheap-assest AM4 mobo-CPU (some Athlon) and upgrade CPU in the future until a middle-high end Ryzen 3000.

Problem: loads of people had this idea. Besides the fancy top new launches the most sold-out CPUs are cheap AMD AM4 CPUs

So I ended up taking the Intel second generation path. The 9000 line. As fuck, sorry again, as much as I just talked shit about Intel the 9000 line is still interesting and I ended with my current four core i3-9100F for 69€. Cheap but has pretty much the best performance per value ratio of these days.

Coming from an ancient 11 years old Core Quad QX9650 feels like a fucking rocket lol

 

That's the closest to an Unicorn move you can get these days lol . Well, it's not as bad as with the GPUs but still very difficult
Good for you

 

What a fear monger.
Do you know that there are price comparison websites? Nothing has changed here.
Save in the short term mentality only to pay in the long term.

 

Yeah lol, I realize that now. I actually planned to build a gaming/audio rig but now I'm left with an overpowered CPU and a crappy old GPU so gaming is out of the question until 2021.

 

This article from Anandtech gives some clear & interesting info on ST & SMT performance:
Investigating Performance of Multi-Threading on Zen 3 and AMD Ryzen 5000

Before reading the article, the idea of limited memory bandwidth came to mind. CPUs with 4 or 8 channel memory controllers (Epyc, Threadripper, Xeon) would get past that issue in part or whole depending upon platform.

 

Last edited: Dec 4, 2020

Yeah, I thought the same. But for now it's just theory. As the 59xxX line is almost non-existent, the shops don't have to lower the prices of anything.. and that reflects in real world scenarios

I'm in double-trouble. Was hoping for 5950X/RTX3080 combo (I need RTX tech for v-ray and some power for Premiere/AE, no gaming..). The thing with nvidia is even worse compared to cpus because the price is almost double of what it should be (as it can compete with 2080 Ti) and that is anything up to +700€.

Exactly! You can be team red/blue/purple fan but no one in this business is a "nice guy".. So wishing other manufacturers to go out of business would be plain dumb.

I expect things to settle at least a bit in a month or two (being optimistic). Waiting patiently..

 

Last edited: Dec 4, 2020

If you're checking out the news the problem of scalpers (re-sellers, whatever) is real and big. Especially when you throw supply shortage to the equation. Which is related to the rush to release products and make fast cash. And yeah, both last two related to the Coronalypse economy-ripping.

lol that sucks. Still, don't ask me to feel luckier than you with my brand new 69€ CPU

 

Stop the fear mongering!
I'm looking at a price graph of the timeline when it was released and the price here is still consistent.
Scalpers are just for the impatient.
It might be a problem there but here new stock is arriving soon all over the place.
I'm even going to wait for a boxing day sale.

 

Can I just repeat that I just bought a new CPU/RAM/mobo?

My point isn't "don't wait" but that scalpers these days are forcing people to wait one or more additional months depending of which products. And which countries like you said.
Happens more with the new GPUs, but also with AMD 5000s.

 

Yes you bought the wrong one.
If people didn't mind waiting then the scalpers wouldn't have a market and there would be no scalpers in the first place.
But the fear mongers and the "fake news" make people think they will miss out. So cut it out.

 

Yes and yes of course to both of you. I 'd like to share a few glimpses of hints i got in my mind as to why AMD raised their cpu prices when they could leave it where it was and completely write off Intel out of the pc game map for the time being, especially now that Intel's hurting once more with the loss of Apple as a major client of theirs.
First of course is they knew they would get away with it. They knew first hand their new cpus will dominate, it's no secret that engineers at AMD have a ton of Intel based pcs to compare performance before they put something out and make claims.
But there is a major development/deal AMD had underlying secretly when they announced the 5000 Ryzen series. Something very big that -to my knowledge- no one in the forum talked about. AMD bought Xilinx. Acquisition cost was a whopping ~35 bil dlrs US. Now, if you don't know who Xilinx are, they invented the FPGA which is what most of the "machine logic" and automation is based on all around the world nowadays and they currently own about 50+% of this market and are also big in the communications field. What's also very interesting, is Xilinx's cpus are RISC processors... What's that ? Did someone say ARM or Apple and RISC Socs? Hehehe. Times are getting very interesting.
Looking more close, i find another reason to do so for AMD, because Intel bought Xilinx's competitor Altera in 2015, who has about 34% of the FPGA market. So now that AMD has got their stock completely off the roof, it was time for expansion and this time around they didn't buy a crumbling company as they did with the (much loved from me back in the day) Canadian GPU maker ATI, but a healthy, ever-growing semi-conductor company, leaders in their field of operations. Therefore, AMD are just about to hit it hard on the datacenter and even move to the automobile industry, aviation, electric appliances and mobile communications to name a few. AMD's CEO Lisa Su, has already confessed on broadcast that she's a very ambitious person so there you have it. They paid 35bil because they are just about to hit on a 110bil/year (combined ops) part of the industry as Su explained.
I can already make the connection here. It's like : "Well guys, we 're about to dish out 35bil but we have class leading cpus in all computer markets so why not try to squeeze a "few more bucks" from our already top selling product regardless of what we make in the process through our Xilinx acquisition.This way we 'll get back some of the money spent"... And boy did she know exactly what's gonna happen, those Zen 3 cpus flew off the shelves in 48 hrs. If i can make an educated guess, AMD has got TSMC working 24hr shifts to keep up with the public's demand in order to bring the new cpus back in availability.
So i wouldn't be surprised if next year's Ryzen has 5G and 10gbE integrated in the cpu. Or if the new BMW logical board is AMD powered. Or if a new robot vacuum cleaner has an AMD FPGA/cpu.
Altera now called Intel PSG was bought for 16.7 bil and they bring about 2 bil annual revenue to Intel. Xilinx's annual revenue is about 3 bil. Both companies are on a standard growth meter, at least up until the C19 pandemic hit us all hard. Of course with Nvidia buying Mellanox (class leading high end networking) and now ARM, both AMD and Intel will be hit hard in the datacenter from the green one and with Apple bringing their own cpu and ecosystem iteration to the creator/scientific workstation market sooner than everybody thinks, the cpu dominance wars will rage harder than ever before.
Thanks for listening.
Cheers

 

Last edited: Dec 4, 2020

Man, that kind of blew up my geek radar happy to replace it.
Really good stuff, I've heard a lot of FPGAs growing in importance over the last years but nothing in detail since I stick to consumer technology usually.

This is very interesting too. Besides Intel rofl and Samsung pretty much all the other companies are using TSMC (Apple, AMD, now nVidia,...). They have an humungous demand now, Apple is adding the whole M1 desktop/laptop supply besides their big demand on mobile.
There's a lot of talk about what are the "priorities" of TSMC. No wonder because it's a very big deal.

And yeah Lisa Sue is the boss but in a world of sharks. So we can't expect her to be merciful with the prices. We do should expect Intel fight back for the sake of our wallets.

PS. @Jim Von Gucci I rated funny your post because I like your playful sarcastic humor. Still... I bought the wrong one?... you nasty *%&$·$·^*
I'm not laughing about your point, it's one of those debates we could be circling around forever so it's okay now that we both said our take

 

Last edited: Dec 5, 2020

@Xupito I forgot to say that, the Taiwanese TSMC is building a brand new factory right in Arizona, USA. This is quite interesting because in these times when everyone who's someone in the industry is moving away from the west trying to cut labour cost, TSMC goes right in the heart of the "beast", which of course goes to show how big their operations are. Reportedly, the new factory is an investment of 12 billion dlrs and will create directly 1600 new jobs. TSMC considers this new factory a small expansion (lol) since it will be one fifth of the company's main "gigafabs" (that's what thy call their main factories). This though will bring great availability for TSMc's customers and i won't be surprised if Intel uses TSMC too since the demand for their cpus still stands despite their "fall from grace".
What's even more interesting is, since Huawei is one of TSMC's prime customers, this factory will indirectly put Huawei back on the USA map. And if the friends here don't know, Huawei is big in high end networking gear. Just about a year ago the largest server cluster in Canada was all equipped with humongous racks of Huawei networking. The overseeing person of the project explained that Huawei offered them the same (or better) performance as Cisco but in half the price and -i add- most probably better warranty and support too since i know that Huawei gives its big customers a 10 year warranty with on-site support. Given that 10 years is a server's life cycle before upgrade, this looks like the best deal the Canadians could strike.
@Jim Von Gucci Man ... hehehe... I like the straight attitude too, np. But if i may say so, just chill my friend, no need to get offensive. I am pretty sure Xupito knows what to buy. But what do you buy when you 're flat broke... He got the cheapest he could get in order to make something out of nothing. You brought a great point to the table and i agree fully, fear mongering is bad. But fear is for inexperienced peeps and Xupito is no youngster (me too of course). That is no fear for us. Just a stoic view at life if you ask me, which leads to logical decisions without hesitation when it comes to purchases. I 'd buy an i3 or Ryzen 3 anytime if i was broke since they represent tremendous value for what they cost. In fact i have an i3/1050ti at home and honestly i am loving it much better for what it cost than my -admittedly many- other comps.
So -no matter late- welcome to the forum and have fun mate.
Cheers

 

Price comparison means NOTHING. Because there is NO STOCK.
Mr Clever