I was asked from a guitar player to match this sound (the guitar solo):

Is it a guitar-synth pedal, effect chain or both?
it's the first time that I am faced with this request: is it possible to recreate it with plugins in a credible way? I have dry guitar stems already generated. I tried with audio to midi function of my daw on his recording: a disaster. As there is a lot of slide going on, the audio track is translated into hundreds of unnecessary small midi notes (instead of a portamento). Result: midifile is a mess. I tried also Jam Origin Guitar, they advertise it as a guitar synth plugin, but is ineffective: resulting notes are not what musician played.
I guess last option is tell him to buy a guitar-synth pedal and track the solo again, but I’m not a lot into this topic: which pedal can I recommend him to achieve this sound?

I would need some advice from who really knows what they're talking about
(no wannabe-guitarist trying to guess a solution)

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2020

It's a Danelectro Electric Sitar from the late 60's, they were re-issued by Jerry Jones Guitars, and then also by Rogue a Chinese copycat of it and finaly Italia Modena made one in a different body shape but was still basically the same the strings and electronics setup as the Danelectro.
Orange Tree samples has a really good version of it for Kontakt. It really sounds exactly like the real thing, I know because I used to have a Danelectro Sitar in the 70's It's fun but not versatile enough to be used as a guitar replacement, also it is a B*tch when the bridge missaligns, the strings have to be just right on the bridge to buzz like a sitar. I hope this answers your question, The Jam Origin Guitar Synth is what you need along with KontaKt and the Orange tree samples Electric Sitar program. That is what I use . The Jam Originn Synth is fantastic with all the different plugins you can can use with it, the sky is the limit.
I've been playing Guitar for over 50 years so I know what I'm talking about.

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2020

That Pat Metheney performance is definitely played on an electric sitar (first time I've heard of that): they were really ahead in that era.
Yes: Orange sitar Kontakt is the right library to achieve that sound, thanks. It is exactly what I was looking for.
Now, The Jam Origin plugin doesn't work well on the already recorded solo, maybe the part was played too intricately. I guess I'll have to track the solo again to let musician hear the result in realtime. If that doesn't work, I advise him to buy a Danielelectro sitar

Thanks again @Strat4ever you put me on the right path

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2020

What solo do you have, your friend's? I'm a bit confused. You probbaly already know but just in case remember that Jam Origin is designed to work only with dry/DI guitar sounds. If it has any effect applied won't work at all.

Sounds like a hard work but very interesting. Could you share your findings when you have something tangible?
Good luck ;)

 

I was provided with stems for mixing / mastering an album. The guitarist asked me if his guitar could have the sound of Metheney's “Last train”.
I hate musicians when they say "I know you can do it: you can do everything with the computer today ..."
The sound of the guitar, in the original stems I have, is the typical george benson jazz style (maybe Ibanez? I have no idea). Let's see if I can come up with something decent with the Jam guitar plugin, if I succeed, I will post the results here for sure, otherwise he'll have to buy a Danelelectro Sitar and record it all again.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DanoSitarRC--danelectro-baby-sitar-red-crackle

We should open a thread with all the most bizarre and illogical requests that musicians ask to the sound engineer

 

I don't think you can do it with stems, you have to re-record the guitar parts with your guitar using the instrument plugin section of jam origin not the guitar section, this way you can even blend in guitar with the sitar sound using the Mix button. To do it properly you have to actually play it, I can't think of any shortcut using a previosly recorded guitar track to do it for something as unique sounding as the sitar. That is like trying to make a garbage truck sound and perform like a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Why take shortcuts tell your friend if he wants to have that sound just do as I explained it's that easy or tell him to buy a Danelectro sitar. Another thing is it doesn't play like a guitar it is a melodious instrument playing chords or really fast solos sounds like Shite. it has limitations that you have to accept.

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2020

always loved that song, but i wasn't all that crazy about the guitar sound when i first heard it. now of course, i can't imagine the song played any other way. sorry - off topic.

 

I completely agree: a sitar needs a different touch. Anyway, if someone interested attached here there is a test of Jam Origin plugin applied on a guitar stem. It is a 12 bar loop in repeat, playing the original guitar and resulting sitar

I can say that the audio to midi plugin works 80%, the other 20% is missing/wrong and I have to edit in piano roll. Also a lot of expressivity is gone: unfortunately in the midi conversion the details and virtuosity are lost. I believe the correct workflow is to record musician with plugin inserted so he can listen in realtime what’s working and what is not

The best option is obviously to play a real sitar

 

I still haven't clear if your stem is 100% dry/DI, eg without any effect/amp/pedal. If the stem is the one in that audio there's no way Jam Origin can work good.

With Melodyne sure would be better. Don't know if you have it at hand.

 

Last edited: Nov 9, 2020

I'm glad you found a partial solution, if you are spending so much time on this project I hope you are being paid for the amount of time you are putting in.

 

All guitar stems are dry, but I’m not sure about the effect chain applied on them, I’ll ask. The point is that's the only master they have, no alternate files available.I’m trying with melodyne now (a plugin that never ceases to amaze me) let's see
Thanks for the support

 

And imagine the requests of no musicians at all like, say, myself lol

Oops...

 

Last edited: Nov 10, 2020

This is an option, to retake or process the dry guitar track. About $240 or cheaper in Europe as the dollar is currently week in the knees, CHF205 here in der Schweiz.

 

Here's a bit of crazy ideas, but since most people agree I'm crazy...

- Use Bias Amp match tone feature
- Similar but perhaps even better for this task. This one:
https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_ReGuitar/

Kind of a software poor man's version of what @Lois Lane just posted

 

I just tried the demo: meh ... it is more fascinating to think that this plugin exists than to use it for real. The results are somewhat poor. Who knows, maybe because I'm not a guitar player and I don't know how to appreciate the nuances

 

I've tried the EH Ravish sitar at a music store years ago, I personally didn't care for it, I guess it depends on what you expect from it, it gave me a headache, it was too noisey. A sitar is a complex instrument to imitate properly with circuitry, I'd rather use the orange tree software version or the real thing. BlueCats Re-Guitar is very good but I don't see any sitar patch there, it's acoustic guitar emulation is very good and the electric guitar pickups it has are also impressive, I wish they'd put a 12 string electric and acoustic patch in it, a Sitar patch would be really interesting and I'm sure many others would like to see this feature in it. There is also the Line6 Variax guitar which I tried and found was pretty interesting but it was lacking in the sitar and Rick 12 sounds, perhaps why it isn't very popular with many musicians otherwise you'd find them in every music store.

 

I'm surprised I didn't think of that, since Bias FX2 with MIDI Guitar 2 is the amp sim that I use with my laptop when I go to jam sessions, it's unbeatable, can hardly wait for everything to open up again. You can find some danelectro sitar sound clips online. Great idea.

 

That's what I was thinking. Since there's little distortion in that sound I don't know how well Bias AMP would handle it.
If I recall correctly Bias FX have the whole effect set and can import all matching profiles but those can only be created in the individual plugins.
Do they have tone matching in BIAS Pedal? I don't know much about real guitar rig but perhaps would work better than amp matching.
Anyways great pieces of software both, Bias and Midi Guitar.

I think you're right. Unlike BIAS I haven't tested it yet personally (I'm not a guitar player either).
Despite looking very cool in theory in practice I haven't noticed much love for it.

 

Last edited: Nov 11, 2020