sane :dancing: merriam-webster

proceeding from a sound mind....RATIONAL

a : having reason or understanding

b : relating to, based on, or agreeable to reason :

the problem is, people are not agreeable to reason they do not want to be

every civilization fails, humans want to control others, and when they have power even a little bit they want to use it

you can see it in the stores etc, they hire more middle aged, women, for management positions, they have never had

power and when you give them a little, they use it

My wife likes MacDonalds food , I like the fries, hot, nothing else, but this bitch of and old counter lady

does not want me to have my fries hot out of the oil, so I started to order my fries without salt so they need to

make a basket of fries for me and then I get them hot , so to screw me over she delayed the order of my wife's

filayofish meal so my fries would sit and cool off, Why because she has the power to do so and she just wants to be

a bitch and control what is going on

Any fetus is basically female for the first 7 to 9 weeks , so really we are all bitches some of us just grow

a penis , the DNA survival is all that matters and we have more than enough DNA bags of mostly water already

 

I quite agree with Catalyst's sad vision.

The human behavior is no black or white in any way.

Humans are animal.
Humans are insanely fragile and weak (in an animal sets)

But :
They have an insanely good memory.
They have social abilities.

That's where all start and all end.

Social abilities brings tribes, the memory brings technology (as in developing good, efficient methods to achieve something, not computer and smartphones), it brings development and improvement.
The two of them, brings pride, it brings stimulation through competition (you have to improve better and faster than the tribes close to you)
It's sane in the way that it brings progress, cultures, and gets the number from few thousand to several billions, animals able to create and have an impact on their environment for the sole purpose of their well being : going beyond survival.
It's insane for the way their pride make them able, and willing to destroy each other.
But it's not one or another, it's both in a subtle balance.

Most of the time, the competition remains quiet, but sometimes it goes wrong.
It's always about the well-being. ie "survival of the tribe is not a problem , how can we go further"?

Che Guevara, french revolution, arab revolution... They were not the poor ones, they were resp. doctors, wealthy (but not nobles), advanced students. Let's go beyond survival. It's always a risky bet.

Humanity is violent.
Communism started a nice goal. But treating humans as ants in a nest devoted to a general well being. it failed. this approach made any competition pointless. without competition, and feeling that survival is given : we don't progress...

 

Communism started a nice goal.

if everyone is honest and equal

It was all the underground economy and kick backs that killed Communism

I guess the murdering philosophy of Stalin and the KGB did not make it very attractive for the long run

you would need true honestly, for humans to form a, Just, Equitable ,Civilization

I do not think you will ever get it *no* *yes*

progress to where, progress to what?

maybe if we stopped this setup up of, profit for corporations

and made it for the profit of humanity it might work

but the USA is never going to go for that :dancing:

 

You're mixin' up equity and equality. It's very different stuff.
Even without the corruption and the killing, it would have failed.
Human being aren't equal, and making the competition between them pointless gets everything back to stone age.

If me 'not doing much' is treated the same way as if I've been a worthy go-getter, everybody ends up not doing much.

 

Well, suppose i'm a doctor (i'm not) and that i've build a whole identity based on that because i had some great success with my speciality and everybody is telling me how good i am. Now, one day it happens that i fail and some patient dies... Or (not so tragic) suppose that i met someone that has a greater success than mine ... so i compare to him and starts suffering because "it can not be that he's most successful that i am" and decide "i must struggle to become better than he is", but i can't for whatever reasons. Then suppose that one day i wake up and see clearly that the real cause of my suffering is no other than that false image i've build upon myself and to whom i'm so attached and that all i have to do is just to "kill" that image to be at peace (with myself and others). Now, it is to that kind of identity our fellow beings are referring to and not to the total annihilation of inner identity which i agree with you that would be of "huge consequences on our psyches". Unfortunately, not everybody is able or has the will to "die" to that false identity that cause us (and others) all kind of problems, identifying ourselves as french, english, spanish, buddhist, christian, clever, idiot, handsome or ugly, or whatever else sure you can add here ... constantly comparing ourselves to others and fighting fighting with them but most important: with ourselves too. But then, some of us may ask: "well, suppose i do it ... if i die to that supposed false image who i will be then ?" to which those fellow beings answer "first try to see what you're not and then you'll see who you really are". But of course, it takes our whole life and effort to build such false image and then believe without any trace of doubt that we are so (and by extension others too as it has been showed in this thread when some users say "humans are animals" or "human being can't change") ... So, someone may ask then: "how can i die in a second to something that has taken my whole lifetime to build in so carefully (and that most probably i'm still building) ?". To which our fellow beings answer "by seeing what you're not and which is the cause for all kind of problems for you and others". And again, the next question we always ask is: "Ok!, ok!, but who i will be then if i do that?" ... never realizing that nobody can tell us that but ourselves alone. So, for me at least, it's very clear: either we die to that false image (false identity) we all build in a way or another or we'll have an everlasting conflict as always has been (between ourselves and others) over this earth (which as someone said in this thread has no conflict at all).

So, what is your thinking now about that "no-identity" i was asking you in my previous post ?. Do you still think it's not possible ?.

 

The moral criteria is just another condicionament.
Not sure if human life really counts when just the politicized discussion takes into account the casualties.
Dead bodies too often are becoming political commodities supporting state models, not humanism.

 

Thanks for coming in, Rolma ... BTW, ets català/na per casualitat ? (are you catalan by chance ?) ... Because "condicionament" is the catalan translation of english "conditioning".

I don't know if i fully understand you, as you are always a little but cryptic somehow with your writings and you don't like writing so much, isn't it ? *yes* ... So, i agree with you in that "moral
criteria" is just another conditioning, but what i'm not sure about is if you're saying this because something i've writen here or because comments by any other user/s. So i would like you
to clarify this a little bit if you want (with few words if you like, let's not be too much demanding here ).

 

In the way you decribe it, I think it's not only possible but necessary, to build not only identity but also any kind of knowledge. This concept is known as ἀπορία (aporia).