Hello everyone, I am dealing with another pain these days. I just finished practice with some of the puremix tutorial series. I just analyzed it after i finished my workflow while i'm listening it. It sounds ok ( i hope it is). Anyway, to my ears everything was ok, i just checked some spectrum tool too -because i don't have decent monitors at the moment- spectrum field was not filled so well, they were not close to each other but i think they must be fill wide frequency range and closer range for consistend sound. I re-arranged some details and listened again but i am %100 not sure what i need to do. And it is bugging me out.

What do you do for getting consistent masters which are pleasing different speakers/headphones as much as you can? I know it will be much more easier when i get decent pair of monitors but i need a bit more time before i get them.


I am leaving my practice link here if you want to see yourself what i mean (It is the bounce after i re-arranged it i can upload previous version if you want too). Loudness warning just turn down volume before you hit the play for your own sake.

https://clyp.it/adpakuul

Have a great day, or evening depends on your region, cheers!

 

Honestly it sounds pretty good to me. Use your ears. With the instrumentation on this your frequency spectrum isn't going to look as full as it would in an EDM or Metal track. The thing that immediately strikes me is volume levels. Drums seem too loud, and vocals seem to quiet. But as for how it sounds, it sounds pretty good.

 

i think the hats & open hats might be a bit too loud

 

Thank you, i think that mistake to filling out all frequency range made me push drums further than usual. If i leave my concerns it sounds better i think. I chose different songs from many different genres to get that wrong opinion, but i think i should pick reference songs more wisely.

 

One person cannot compose, arrange, produce, mix and master. They are all different skills. Why do you think mastering engineers in mastering suites are a single purpose profession? I'm not saying you can't make a good sounding product, but you mustn't be hard on yourself.

 

you are right, i boost a lot of high end at the eq stage while i was trying to fill high frequencies tho

 

I could not agree more. I love working on music, really not bothers me to be active on all fields from bottom to top. But my main purpose is the find 'the' field to be a professional one. I am testing myself on every field to chose right one. I am amateur now but my enthusiasm (or obsession i don't know how to describe) is pushing me to be work a bit more harder than usual person

 

i'm sorry but i have to disagree.
with enough experience on your shoulders a producer can definitely mix and master his own tracks. in fact i work and know a lot of top-tier producers that do that with incredible results.

regarding TheMoss questions, a good pair of monitors is not the solution. the combination of those with an acoustically treated room will give you the best result.
saturation is what makes the lows stand out even on phone speakers, try tape saturation (in parallel mode / mix knob) and double check with headphones.
forget analyzers for a moment and focus on making the midrange sound good, because every track have a different frequency curve based on the type of instruments used and their presence. if you nail the midrange you'll end up fixing the lows and highs faster and easily.

i listened "jealousy" and it sounds good and balanced to me, however i would compress the vocal a bit more, few dbs louder and make it wider - listen at 2.40 the relation between the main vocal and background vocals isn't right to me.
mephistoprod is right, the hats are 1 to 2 dbs too loud.

hope it helps

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2020

Thank you, i noted that and gonna try it today.

 

Hello mate. I know i 've said it before, but the only difference between amateurs and pros is, professionals need to make money from music and this is not always pleasant, compromises on the art (and science) will be made along the way. Skill wise, time and time again amateur skill and talent has "put to shame" enough pros, so no difference here.
So, your song is beautiful and features a killer vocal and neat musician performances. Technically, imho, you need a slightly better, more detailed mix, it's not the master that should trouble you, imho.
A rounder kick sound, a less prominent hihat perhaps. Automated compression and on the vocal will help it sit better in the mix when it gets louder, the quieter passages are fine. You can also try a small frequency gap (it's what i do) for the rest of the melodic instruments so the vocal occupies a bit more of it's own space, without being separated completely of course because the latter will make it sound cold and alien to the track.
As mentioned, better speakers are always welcome, but room treatment, eliminating unwanted room ambience and static frequencies etc., should be first in the list.
Tools have evolved the last 15-20 years and the ability for anyone to get their hands on mixing and mastering gear is both a blessing and a curse. As a slightly older person and sort of scepticist, i am happy to hear raw talent and if you feel overwhelmed at mastering this, i will gladly do this for you for free.

Electronic music producers do this all the time. It doesn't mean they can master everything, they only know the genre(s) they are involved with and this is a real world flattery, in reality they only know how to make do with their own sound and anything that is really close to that, if there's such a thing. And again, a second trained ear that does masters day in day out and is not emotionally attached to the content, will beat any producer who's developed a mastering skill and ocassionally masters his own music.
So yes it can be done, but any mastering engineer wouldn't lose sleep over producers turning mastering engineers and taking his/her place or cancelling their skill and job altogether.
Cheers

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2020

Thank you for your help, honestly. Being appreciated is really motivating me. Even in online platform which is grants huge anonymty is much more sincere to me. I do not want to take your time with this project. This is only a song one of the sites on internet provides me for practice. But knowing experienced person who wants to help, I'd appreciated that for sure. Because finding a helping hand especially music industry is quite rare. Thanks again.

 

so, for example, you're telling me that an average mastering engineer can do a better master than Noisia? Just because they are emotionally attached to their own track?
One of their label artists IMANU pushed the boundaries in the mastering world, releasing tracks peacking -1 rms without sounding distorted as hell. now give me one mastering engineer name, a single one, that can achive that without ruining the track.

I am myself a mastering engineer, but this "old-school" mentality ain't working anymore. Your choice to deal with it or stay behind.

 

Errr yep, most likely. And wth, are you implying Noisia are mastering engineers lol ? They 're definitely not. They just pushed the envelope a lil further with their noisy hard banging dnb and they mix their stuff really really well. If you are a mastering engineer as you say, you 'd then know that a perfect mix needs just a few mundane touches from a mastering engineer and these, anyone who's had a few years of experience enough can do. What any Noisia for this matter cannot do, is master somethig completely different from what they do, like a jazz track or acoustic etc. They 're just not versed to these genres and this is fundamental mate not old school. Just because you can drive well it doesn't mean you can drive in F1 races bro.

I am sorry but . Np. I like your enthusiasm, you will grow though. And so will Imanu, if he doesn't change jobs. Let's see, i see your -1rms and raise you to -0.01. Will this prove anything ? If i do it will your label hand all their masters to me at a proper fee?
Generally speaking, mixing and mastering noisy, loud stuff is the simplest mastering task. You can get away with anything and also try anything. Reason why more than half of the plugin makers demo their stuff with loud rock or electronic content and very few select to demo their plugs (and hardware gear for that matter) with real acoustic performances because then any flaw of the plug or machine is easily revealed after a few tweaks. But i digress.
I see nothing old school in what i say. It's one thing to master your own tracks and another to master everyone's and if you are smart enough you will agree. Either way, i like to stay behind and be a spectator when any upstarts start running before they learn how to walk.
Be well

 

It doesn't sound bad at all, you just have a few instruments to work with and your eyes are decieving you. I would only use the spectrum analyzer to balance the low and high end, having a mastered reference to check might help too.
If I would want to listen a song with the entire frequency spectrum filled I would play just pink noise! Trust your ears, at the end of the day they are the most valuable piece of equipment in your studio!

 

first of all, do you realize Noisia don't do noisy loud stuff only? go read credits for video games, films, tv serie scores. (ghost producing too)
anyway Noisia are just an example here, and i'm grown enough to be realistic and see a lot of talented and experienced producers mastering their own tracks better than me with 17 years of experience.

numbers ofc don't prove anything right? but i would like to hear your master compared to an Imanu one. is your -10 rms rock track sounding more convincing than his "noisy loud" shit? You call it simple but why only a few proved to be able to do it without ruining the track?

 

Thank you, I am using spectrum analyzer and vu meter for balance low end too! maybe i should use less spectrum analyzer at all. I will stop over using it immediaetly. I cannot wait to be a professional as fast i can honestly. And pushing the limits about the working. 8+ hours every single day about mixing and mastering. It is exhausting -learning from scratch- when you are on by your own. I will take it slowly. Hurry affects me bad i totally understand it now. Sometimes i can not stand to listening carefully, just listening a bit then observing from analyzer an so on, then move on to the next project as soon as i can so i think i am getting closer one more step to being an experienced guy about audio stuff. I will listen much more than turning the knobs. Let's see how it will be affect my skills.

 

I'm game alright. Here's one of my rock masters:

PS: I didn't make the remix,Kevin Frey did, i only mastered it.

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2020

sounds alright. you seem to have a good attitude which is very important. probably more important than all the other skills. it will certainly allow more opportunities to present themselves to you.

as far as the track goes. it sounds like you have got good source material to work with which makes the job infinitely easier. maybe you should seek out some less than ideal projects to practice on. in reality that is probably what you will be working on for years because no one else wants to deal with them. at least until you get a toe hold in the industry or get lucky with some breaks that may fall your way through networking or sheer persistence. while it is good to drill down on certain songs, try to seek out a wide variety of songs that have different problems and find solutions to them so you can quickly solve them in the future. if a breakthrough does come along you will not have very much time work out stuff because no one has any time and we are all expendable. at that level you are paid to solve a problem quickly because someone else does not want to deal with it. you are just a small part of a greater process and some people will think you are a fairly insignificant part. the song, and maybe the artist and publishers are all that matter in the end.

usually if you are asked to be involved at this stage of production you would be provided with some roughs or you could request their tracking roughs to get an idea of where the the artist or producer wants the project to go. if you can not beat the rough you have a problem, but if you sound to different to the rough it is also a problem. remember, if you want to be a professional -- it is not your music. even if they say to do what you want on the mix, do not listen to them, they have what they want in their mind for their music and the roughs are what they have been listening to for however long, and that is where they want it to go. again -- it is their music, you do not matter, at least until you have a good working relationship or have some project under your belt that indicate what they can expect from you. there are a lot of nice people in the industry, usually people who have been in it for a while, who are stable and realize the communal aspects of the endeavor. it may be a pot luck. you may not be happy with a relationship but still use it for what you need and move on. you may try connecting with an emergent genre and grow with it. i do not know the opportunities that exist at that level any more and if those sort of traditional channels still exist. it all seems crazy to me, at least it is not how it was.

don't fret the gear too much. translation between systems has always been a problem and is always going to be a problem. however bad your system is, it is probably better than some systems that people have made great iconic music on in the past. i do not know what sort of capital you have to expend, but just spend the least amount of money possible to get something that works. you can put money back in from what you earn. your expenditure should be determined by what you earn and future opportunities it may open. it is a business. it can be a crazy and fun business, but it is still a business. people will tell you if something is wrong, just fix it until they sign off on it. learn from it and move forward. different people expect or want different things. understand that they are probably crazy or under pressure or both. give them what they want. if you can not reasonably provide what they want then it is just bad luck, take note and move forward. some people have no idea what they want or unrealistic expectations and want your to provide a magic bullet, it rarely happens, if their is no prospect of getting more work from them just move on. it is a bad sign and they will probably rip you off somewhere down the line anyway. you will probably develop some instincts on these sort of things through experience. everyone gets ripped off multiple times in this industry. it is not your problem but is usually a bigger problem for them as word tends to get around. it is a smaller industry than you may think. bad reputations can be disastrous unless you are the one paying the cheques.

increasingly most people have got more than enough stuff to make decent music on. it is more up to the choice one makes and what you want to say. if you want to be involved on purely the technical side, which it seems you do. you have to really make a quick assessment of what is being asked of you and have the solutions to complete that task within the usually short amount of time you are given, with whatever you have to complete the task.

oh... and be prepared to not see the light of day or have any outside social life for maybe 20 years. this is now the totality of your life. i am not trying to scare you off it is just the kind of commitment that is required to eak out a living, even more so now in these days of decreasing money in the industry. if you feel your level of passion can sustain you then proceed with caution because passion may be all you have left at times.

unfortunately you will have to fight for a position in a crowded market. believe me you are in fierce competition with some incredibly gifted people with a tonne of experience. they will either fight you tooth and nail for their position or it will be patently obvious that you have not got the right stuff yet. unless you are incredibly lucky you may not have a choice in what position you want in the process, the position may choose you. as i have said you will probably be dealing with other peoples problems that nobody else wants to deal with, gather the skills and make yourself useful. the usual business ethics: be nice, affable, reliable, quick, trustworthy etc. still apply but you may have to be creative and ruthlessly assertive if need be. the water may seem calm on top but you are swimming in a shark tank. your animal instincts should tell you who to align with and who to be wary of -- if you are even lucky enough to have that choice.

i am not much on the technical aspects, but i know a thing or two from experience. we all have ears, and we all know listening is of ultimate importance. it is surprising how many problems are due to simple fact that people are not listening, no matter how experienced or how skilled. it is just a matter of human failing. listening with a technical set of ears is a given and develops over time but also never lose hearing with a set of naive set of ears that knows nothing about music. that is the vast majority of the audience who actually pay you in the long term. even most audiophiles will forgive minor technical issues but they will notice things such lack of impact and being lied to (musically speaking).

for this particular track. prioritize. every step along the recording/production process makes things smaller, it is all being put in a little box. we are fortunate in this digital age to have a larger box, height, width and depth, than in the past. when going to vinyl for example. it is still extremely limited. the very last stage of the process, the speakers, is statistically speaking the most limiting of all, except for maybe some microphones. maybe try asking questions like: what is pushing the song along? what is the necessary scaffolding and what is ornament? what is providing the feel and mood that the artist wants to convey. these are just as important as the highly technical aspects that most trained people should be able to deal with anyway. a sensitivity to the program material as a whole will go a long way and usually provide answers to the technical issues in a more timely manner than endlessly chasing this and that. if something is not important get it out of there. if something is important give it more space in the little box and get the less important things out of its way i.e. make it sound big in relation to everything else in the small confines of what you have available. people will not know something is close unless you make something else seem far away, etc. these actors on the stage can be pushed around as necessary as the play unfolds. then you can try and fool people with your various techniques that the little box you have is huge. which is a whole other story.

you have already displayed an understanding of these technical principles so i am probably not telling you anything new in that regard. it is just that you were talking about boosting when maybe cutting something is more appropriate. boost, boost, boost and things become harsh and cluttered. cut, cut, cut and things become thin and weird sounding. create some space for an element that you have determined necessary to sit back and still be prominent. for example, as people have mentioned the hats and drums in particular may not be a level problem but a of where they should sit depth wise in a track of this genre. i have also noticed that you have plenty of room width wise to clear out the center a bit and leave more space for the traditionally central elements to breath and own a prominence in the context of the mix. as i have said, to me it sounds alright, though i also agree with some of the comments. just some ideas to play around with. these are the choices you will live and die by and i guarantee that you will get it wrong sometimes when you hear the finished product. so choose wisely. the good thing is that probably no one else will care because they are totally sick of the project and just be happy to have it finished. they will be your little secrets to cringe at all alone. let the outside critiques waffle on, if you did your best pay them no mind, the people who know, know that it is harder than you think and will understand.

i hope you find something here that is useful.

 

Sounds really nice, maybe a bit too harsh on the high end for my taste. Also I wouldn't mind the drums be a tad softer.

 

It sounds fine to me, thank you for the loudness warning.

I think it will translate OK from I can hear there isn't really anything wrong with it, some people might have chosen a different path but those people are not you and they are not everyone. I happen to enjoy hearing a bit of HH and cymbals sometimes, some people don't.

Here is the one thing you are going to have to learn if you want to get into any art based business, don't be afraid to like what you like but don't be so stubborn as to not give people what they want.

As you collect more and better tools along with more knowledge your work will show more polish and sophistication.