i just need a decent system that can handle flstudio a couple of serum sylenth instances
and with my old rig as soon as i stack a few vsti plugs and let them play chords my cpu immediatly flips straight into the redzone
im not an proffesional producer that use big orchestral libs or other kontakt stuff
it's more like a hobby for me
and most of the time im stuck in my (loopsyndrome)

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Did you see the warning to both AMD and Intel about the ARM processors?

 

There are some things, by seeing some pc builds here, that I find a bit `strange`...

ATX Towers are way too big... Mid towers - or smaller, have enough space (in most cases) and look more elegant to me.
https://blog.nzxt.com/how-to-choose-the-right-pc-case/
https://blog.nzxt.com/whats-the-difference-between-h-series-non-i-and-i-cases/
PSUs power are usually calculated too high...700W @ 80% is a lot of power for this build...
It`s not a gaming pc nor he`s rendering stuff for hours. A GT 1030 consumes only 75W.

Maybe I`m wrong...

 

Last edited: Jul 18, 2020

That's what I believe too. There's surely no need for a 700w 80+ Gold psu. I'd suggest lower wattage 80+ gold to save money, or if its not an issue, lower wattage 80+ platinum rated. And also, one that has a silent mode, I think Be quiet psu's do.

 

Powe supplies work efficiently at 25-80% of the maximum headroom of your system. 40% is about the sweet spot, so factor this in. Consider future upgrades too

 

I'm using 750W 80+Gold EVGA G2 modular power supply, but I've been using powerful gfx cards like 980Ti and now 1080Ti where 650W psu is considered safe minimum (since card alone can draw around 300W), and my OC'ed i7-5820K may draw around 150-200W itself, then add handful of drives and boom, it's good to have good quality power supply, which can handle usage spikes

most computers without dedicated gfx card will do fine with 500W 80+Bronze rated psus,
modularity is nice which I always recommend, nowadays added costs are negligible,
silent mode isn't usually big deal, because most cases have psus in the bottom, where most people won't hear fan spinning anyway

 

Lemme start from the end. Elegance and aesthetics is subjective. For what it's worth i can show pics of terrible looking mid towers and itx builds and truly magnificent looking big machines, full towers or even super towers with full blown custom loops and carefully tuned rgb and of course vice versa.
So what to choose then? Man, bigger is better. But why ? Because more space is always welcome on upgrades. It also allows the best airflow thus less noise. It also allows full custom liquid loop builds or huge AIOs to be installed without cramming the box. Surely it 's not for everyone, especially when space is an issue. But here we are musicians and most importantly we belong to the desktop category. So anyone choosing a mid tower instead of -let's say- a Corsair 750D, are plainly starting their build the "wrong" way. Yes it's a matter of choice but i find it hard to believe that for desktop musicians there is no room for a full tower. It's the centerpiece of your studio anyway.
I do understand most of the peeps here don't own or have access to pro studios and are forced to work on crammed home studios. And for those who are crammed in a small room the mid tower or itx or even laptop are legit choices. But if you have enough space you have no excuse for it.

Hmmm... I would almost agree, but...
I don't talk PSUs because everytime i have to sit and explain again why bigger and high quality is better again and most importantly will save money from the electrical bills on the long run.
First, the 80% assumption is for the cheapo PSUs atm. Any PSU that is officially rated Gold or better has 90% efficiency (or 89% if you are in the USA).
Now let's see the bigger picture. A gold rated power supply that is 500w and is called to provide 225w of power will be at about 50% load. The same power supply at 1000w would work at a 25% load. The latter will consume less power to provide the same wattage and would produce less heat thus lower noise -if any at all- as well. Add to this that almost all the times the bigger power supplies have better ripple values and it becomes clear why even for 3700X, a 750w Gold+, hell even an 850 or 1000w PSU is NOT overkill but a sane, legit and smart choice. I have done the math too many times, the difference in price from a 500w bronze to a 750w gold psu will be equaled in the first 6-12 months of operation from the lower electrical bills depending where you are. From there and onwards you are only gaining.
Also, last but not least, the better PSUs always come with a great warranty. For example, Corsair RMx series (Gold+, semi-passive, ultra silent psus) come with a 10 year warranty. Now anyone can go ahead and buy whatever the heck they want, just don't tell me afterwards i haven't told you so.
Always with love and respect to everyone's opinion and choice,
Cheers

 

here's a nice quick article on PSUs, basically what taskforce wrote above, just with more pictures ;)

https://appuals.com/gold-vs-bronze-psu/

 

I agree with you on the case and also the Power supply. The only issue you missed was getting a better case and power supply you can reuse them again on your next upgrade. Instead of just getting another one. So in the long run you will save money.

 

Then I respectfully disagree. He wants an Audi and you are trying to sell him a Porsche...

How many Watts your computer is really using? What`s your average cpu load an hour? 50% ?...

Air flow and quality cases and coolers matters more than big case sizes.
The goal is to have the generated heat out as fast and efficient as one can (top-hear part of the case).
If you open one side of the case you have the whole room... that`s even more space... uhmm?
He is not overclocking, not rendering for hours...
A VW Beetle does not have a 700HP engine. Not even in the Netherlands... sorry about that...

It`s out of measure! A good build resonates, that is, things should be optimized to work together and have less waist. (efficiency)
Just like what any industry does! A guitar amp has a sweet spot...and so should a build.



You don`t need to explain me anything, but I would be interested in articles or data about it.
Like I said, maybe I`m wrong.

For his build, something like this, in blue, red or black... without the lights.

I dig it...

 

Last edited: Jul 19, 2020

Totally true, a good quality case makes a big difference to air flow. Without good air flow, thermal throttling starts to impact performance.

 

AVX and AVX2 are actually alright [Voxengo plugins use AVX instructions subset], but AVX512 is a new Intel gimmick nobody cares about. Still, I agree that MassiveX is a massive flop.

Regarding PSU efficiency, these days they are making them more efficient at low loads, but they are still most efficient at about 50% load, so ~600W PSUs still rule for any kind of a PC. I've read about it yjust yesterday, since I want to buy a new PSU. It will be Corsair RM650x. Corsair PSUs are also extremely quiet. I have Corsair TX650 and it's still running beautifully after 10 years. Incredible. But only stick to RM,HX, or TX series [in order of preference] "C" series are for wimps.

PSU could actually be the most important thing you buy when assembling your own PC. Never save money on the PSU. Good ones will prolong the lifetime of your components and maybe even last to be used in your next assembly.

 

Last edited: Jul 21, 2020

Nice PSU I have one in white. Sometimes it's the small things that make all the difference

 

You may disagree as much as you want, np. It should be obvious that in the airflow comparison of a mid tower and a full tower built at the same quality and standards, 99.999% of the times the bigger tower wins. More space = better air circulation. Nuff said. And i said for many people it may be overkill, so pick your poison.
Now this comparison can get blurry really fast because the market is full of shitty and mediocre products of all sizes and the full tower category gets the least upgrades because -as i mentioned- it's not for everyone whereas the mid tower has 10 times more products as it's the most popular.
Now, the psu chart with efficiency is surely correct but it only shows a fraction of what psus do.

The H400i from NZXT is discontinued. Its succesor the 510i is widely popular amongst gamers with AIO coolers and just a couple of ssds perhaps. I have built a couple of those as gaming machines, they look good but airflow is mediocre, their feel is plasticky and if you want to utilize more than a couple hard disks you should be looking elsewhere. At about 85 euros the H510i comes off on the pricey side, but that's what you pay for NZXT which is based on LA, California
Oh and about airflow, anything with a mesh front intake is likely to have better airflow thus less noise than a seemingly more quiet case with a closed front and tiny intakes from the side which are most of the times pretty much inadequate to pull air in.

Sorry but no man. You are quick to put a tag on peeps, what gives man. Where the heck did i try to sell anyone anything. My post about psus and mid/full towers is just speaking in general, expanding on those subjects and not about the op. The OP got enough posts to form an opinion.
You be well.

 

Intel all the way.
There are still many reasons to not go AMD for audio.
If you just want to play games, then go AMD

 

They say in my country, once AMD, never more AMD.

Edit: And I agree with them

 

Last edited: Jul 21, 2020

You won't regret it bro. I may have installed 20 of them, mainly in workstation machines. Each and every one who got an RMx is still giving me props for the selection. If put in a neat case with proper ventilation, chances are you will never hear it. Not to mention that during the time you 'll be doing mundane tasks the fan will be completely off due to the semi passive design. But hey, i know you know these so don't mind me mate. Just thinking out loud.
Personally, i own 3 of them now. Around spring time and during the first lockdown here, a guy in Romania was selling new sealed Rmx models in Ebay for almost half price, i bought an 850w for 85 euros lol. So now i have 750,850 and 1000. I need to get a 650 for my wife's machine and i'll complete the collection hehehe.
All the best

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_cooling

Cooling can be changed by:

- Dust acting as a thermal insulator and impeding airflow, thereby reducing heat sink and fan performance.
- Poor airflow including turbulence due to friction against impeding components such as ribbon cables, or incorrect orientation of fans, can reduce the amount of air flowing through a case and even create localized whirlpools of hot air in the case. In some cases of equipment with bad thermal design, cooling air can easily flow out through "cooling" holes before passing over hot components; cooling in such cases can often be improved by blocking of selected holes.
- Poor heat transfer due to poor thermal contact between components to be cooled and cooling devices. This can be improved by the use of thermal compounds to even out surface imperfections, or even by lapping.

Not a single word about size. Is it possible that they`ve missed such an important factor?

Where did you get this number from? It`s not obvious to me...
Where is the data... lab measurements...


As one can see, it performs better at higher loads.

https://hardwarecanucks.com/cooling-power/how-to-choose-a-power-supply/


PSU = 1000W

A computer consumes between a min (idle) and a max (full) = a range.

If a computer consumes 300W max and you have a 650W PSU (that`s around 50%), the range is between min and 50%. (50% to the left in the graph). That means, you`re getting optimum performance only when a computer is consuming max value...

A better choice (range) is when max = around 65% of what a PSU can deliver ( a third ), not a half or less.

 

Last edited: Jul 23, 2020

Oh dear. I need metrics to prove a 5th grade physics problem ? Ok let's see. A mid size case theoretically has better airflow since the air pushed travels from intake to exhaust fan and so on. The same design in a full tower case would have the air stop travelling because of the bigger distance from front to back.
These facts though are given with empty cases or minimal builds. Build a case with a huge cpu cooler, put 4-5 hdds, a couple of ssds and a proper GPU and voila you 'll see that the bigger tower wins. I 've built so many mid and full towers the past 20 yrs that i know the models by heart lol.
A good comparison should be a Corsair 450D and a 750D. These look completely identical only the latter is a full tower. Try and guess which has better airflow and is dead silent (after a build).

This is ... i dunno, you are stuck 20 yrs ago ? Modern psus with 80+ Gold rating have 87% efficiency at 20% load, which only goes up a mere 3% to 90% at 50% load and goes back to 87% at 100% load. And these numbers are 90/92/89 for countries who use 230V. Examples are Corsair RMx or similar Silverstone, EVGA etc.
Here: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7...w-80-plus-gold-power-supply-review/index.html
Thus bigger is better, you lose 2-3% of max efficiency and you gain about 30% on the electrical bill because of much less current consumed. Do you get it now ?
Cheers

 

Last edited: Jul 23, 2020