Hello,
With the idea that my older laptop with 3.06GHz DC T9900 and 8GB RAM is no longer powerful enough for making music, I've invested into powerful desktop with the latest Haswell beast i7-4770K and 16GB RAM. However I am still getting about the same number of maximum playable voices as with T9900, and that is about 2600. 4770 should be 5 times more powerful, therefore I should have topped 10000 without glitches. The drop-outs usually start at 14% CPU usage, but all 4 cores share the same load - 25%. At T9900 it was similar - drop-outs started at 60%-70% CPU, that was the reason for update.
Kontakt is used as a VSTi in Reaper or Standalone - still the same result, although in Reaper, drop-outs start much earlier (this issue troubles me on all my machines regardless of which version of Reaper is used, how fine-tuned the settings is or apparently how powerful the machine is).

Now there may be a catch - I am using Asio4All since Creative decided that ASIO is no longer supported in Win7 on my Live 24bit External. Would it help if I purchased, say Traktor Audio 2 with native ASIO support?

On the other hand there might be something wrong with multicore support in Kontakt...

Any ideas?

PS:
Using Kontakt 5.1.0
Samples streamed from Crucial M4 SSD 256GB
Reaper 4.151
Windows 7 SP1

 

Hi there

Yeah I would say your best bet is to try out an proper soundcard that supports ASIO. If you maybe get a lend of one to try out? Also before you set up this soundcard you would be best to disable the soundcard you are currently using via the BIOS and uninstall ASIO4all. This will avoid possible conflicts.

Hope this helps

BB

 

Yes you should add a proper soundcard to your monster computer!! However you may check if there are problems with this little famous software:
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

 

Since you don't need the older laptop anymore you can give it to me pro bono.

 

Haha, sorry not really, I still use it and not only for making music, but it's no longer primary, but secondary machine. In fact I have one desktop and two laptops (one 15" Lenovo W500 and one 12" HP 2530p for music-on-the-go) and since I spent quite a lot of time tuning and refining them, no matter how "weak" they are (in fact not really weak, but rather "obsolete" ), I'll still keep them.

Now that it comes to choosing audio interface, I'd want something that I can use everywhere, something like forementioned Traktor Audio 2. Live 24bit external was the best solution, with 3 stereo outs and 1 stereo in, but apparently no longer. Any suggestion for new sound card?
Thanks!

I know this latency check for a while now. It was the first tool I used on the new motherboard. Anyway no latency issue here - absolute maximum 150us

 

- Have you checked if this happens with specific libraries/patches?
- Tried any DFD patches and/or pre-load buffer tweaking?
The preload buffer setting is specifying how much of each sample you want to preload into RAM. As the preloaded portion of the sample(s) being played is playing back, the hard disk has already begun fetching the next portion of the sample(s) being played. This amount of time (often a fraction of a second) depends directly on the amount of memory we reserve for the first part of the sample (the preload buffer size).If that buffer is large, it is sufficient to play back for a longer time, which makes the hard disk’s job much easier. If that buffer is short, the hard disk will have to work harder and quicker, but will save more RAM. So obviously there is a tradeoff here. On one hand it’s possible to use relaxed settings which are easy on the hard drive but take up larger amounts of RAM. On the other hand, it’s possible to use such short preload times that the hard drive isn’t able to deliver the samples fast enough. Polyphony also figures in; if the hard drive has to fetch a few samples at a time, it may work fine, but if it has to fetch hundreds of samples at the same time (for example, in a full orchestral sample library), it may get tricky. Every users’ hardware and performance needs are different, so there are no onesize-fits-all answers. However, we have some more guidelines to share.
- Is CPU overload protection enabled? If yes, try to relax it or turn it off.
Kontakt > Options > Engine
- Also, while there, see if all of the cores (4) are being used
- Maybe there are parts of your project with extreme polyphony usage from all your tracks and there your CPU peaks momentarily
- Use a buffer of 512 or more on Asio4All (I've had problems with glitched sound especially on recording, disabling all other sound sources except the DAW [which didn't happen on XP], playback volume imbalances)
- Check to see if your DAW is using all cores
- If your RAM is close to being depleted you can get glitches and drop-outs (and potential crashing)
- Disable antivirus/unnecessary processes
- It could be a software bug (Kontakt, patch, reaper/DAW etc. - In earlier versions of Reaper, for example, I think many VSTis and even Kontakt at times crashed)
- Run a Memtest, chkdsk crap, defrag...

Getting a new card is of course your choice (and I doubt it's the culprit) but make sure to try all these first and see if something changes. That could save you some money if you're not determined to go that way for more apparent reasons (especially if your only driving force of buying was based on such a shady problem as this).

Anyways... Hope I helped somehow.

 

Andrew, there's so much wrong with what you've said that I don't even know what to say. I mean, you have to learn a lot about PC and Windows and how to get the best out of it first, then upgrade the soundcard at the end. That's a short version of what I couldn't be bothered to write. It's just too much, sorry.

Start with optimising your BIOS, then Windows first. Then see how it goes from there. Google and audio forums are your friends. Intel Speedstep is your enemy. There, at least one hint, but it's a really good one. ;) Try to Google "background processing", too. These are both usual audio tweaks for Windows. When you disable Speedstep, forget about working on battery power, and it's not recommendable to work with audio on battery power anyway.

 

Yes, Ebrithil *yes*
What is life without learning
Except for one detail - the issue is fixed. It was indeed the soundcard, more specifically, the drivers. I've chosen ESI Duafire, used in excellent condition for $79, it's firewire, so no problems with USB buffers, timing issues, etc. It's also considered to be very stable and efficient on CPU.

I found it rather strange - I always considered myself to be more than competent with computers, setting up small Debian-based servers, helping others with Windows related issues, etc. Could you give me at least a hint what you consider wrong in my procedures? Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough, not a native English speaker after all.

I cannot agree. Intel Speedstep, or EIST is not your enemy if used properly, plus it rarely make any difference in battery life. Intel C-states or idle states, however, might cause issues as well as CPU Frequency Scaling, Turbo Boost and USB selective suspend for USB-powered devices. Hyperthreading could also increase latency, but that's disputable.

Windows is quite notorious for a lot of background processing, which I am aware of. Therefore every Windows installation have to go through turning off most unnecessary services, cache optimalisation (background service priority for ASIO), pagefile removal, in W7 also disabling visual styles. This is not really an issue since I always keep an eye on what's launched on startup.

I cannot recommend it enough. Working on battery power has a ton of advantages over working on "dirty" mains. Firstly, no AC hum, no ground loops (mostly), devices are often portable, battery can be easily recharged and is more reliable if properly maintained. Every piece of my audio equipment is required to be able to run on batteries, including mixer, phantom power adapters and preamps

 

You can't be serious - is this a joke post?

My laptop wouldn't run on battery for very long at all, especially on a larger project. The constant cpu usage and disk access will drain the battery on a laptop in no time, unless you're using a low powered ultrabook. Which in itself isn't the most practical idea if you like to use modern software, as we all know that more cpu power is better.

I suppose that if you limit yourself to producing for only a few minutes at a time, then you could get some work done on a battery. Although I don't see the point unless you're working outdoors, in which case you'll need a bright screen to overcome the sunlight. Which will use a lot of battery power.

As for ground loops, they're easily treatable. Just buy a mains conditioner, mine cost £30. Far better than messing around with a ton of battery powered devices.

 

When I said battery power, I didn't mean laptop battery or powering each device individually. I was thinking of one single pack (like 12V car batt) powering the entire system.
I would explain it in more detail, however it would not do much good, since I have learned one thing on Audiosex forums - my ways of doing things are usually not understood by others, sometimes ridiculed and proven wrong and meaningless, which is one of the reasons why I always hesitate when expressing my opinion or idea here.

 

Andrew what you say about others not understanding you is not true.I know what you are saying.I did an upgrade 2 years ago and went with an MSI gaming laptop for music production that uses 2nd Gen i7,32Gb RAM,SSD and a 2Gb Nvidia GPU.My CPU is also a 4 core with 8 threads.My CPU footprint went from 90-95% on the old laptop down to 5-15% with the change.The majority of all your dropouts stem from latency issues.These issues have to do with your choice in soundcard and drivers.The Windows background services and all that other crap do not hinder the newer rigs/laptops so much,atleast,not mine.I am using a simple interface Edirol UA1-EX and an Mbox Pro.I get better results from both of these using ASIO4ALL than I do the native drivers that come with my units.I can set my latency down to 64 samples on most projects with ASIO4ALL and load shitloads of plugins.A few VSTi's want a 128 buffer.For playback I can use the Realtek chip on my motherboard without any problems also using ASIO4ALL.As far as using batteries,I do that too.I notice a low freq hum when I am plugged in to the wall......I have checked for ground problems throughout the circuit to it's source but it still would hum.When I run off the battery the hum goes away.I ended up using a 12v true sine inverter hooked up to a bank of 6 6v 220AH golf cart batteries using 3 pairs in series then linking the 3 banks in parallel.If you are thinking of doing the same you will need high amp hours.Remember though.....2 6v batteries with 220AH ratings will only equal 220AH 12v in series.My total amp hours are 660 and I can go for hours in the studio using all the essential gear,hum free.When I finish in the studio I flip a switch to activate the charge cycle.It is best to use 6v deep cycle batteries like I did because they can be drained many many times without killing their ability to fully charge.Hope that helped you some.PS-Kontakt 5 is my most used VSTi.

 

Some story CapnCrunch!
I would have gone also to laptop, but I loathe 16:9 screens and since there's not a single recent laptop with 16:10 or 4:3, which is probably best, I went for desktop and for old Eizo E771 1600x1200. Consumption of this whole "monster" PC, is however very low, just 21W idle, 68W full power and that is without CPU/RAM under-volting so I am not that far from laptops.

Maybe 48V instead of 12V will be better for you, since you can stack up 4 12V deep-cycle VRLA in series and draw bigger currents if needed, plus the inverters are usually more effective with higher voltages.

DuaFire should arrive on Wednesday, so let me then post my results, I'm expecting day/night difference, since it's not USB. Some might have thought - it's firewire, you would need an AC adapter anyway, so mobility goes away. Not really . The card requires 12V DC so 3 Panasonic 3400mAh Li-Ion cells in series with PCB will do the trick. I can perhaps stick them on the top of the card. $30 upgrade.

 

It's not that I don't understand, it's just that I don't agree with you. Learn to accept that other people won't always agree with you, especially when you go against 99.9% of professional producers. Almost every record recorded has been done on mains power - if you set your studio up correctly then you won't have any problems with mains hum or ground loops. There are numerous options to clean your power supply up, tbh running stuff on battery sounds like more hassle than it's worth. But if it works for you then that's cool.

 

So I've got another update!
ESI Duafire was junk, so I had got myself Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, which is now also sold. Focusrite ASIO driver was a lot better than ESI, but still not adequate. After that I went for NI Traktor Audio 2 and I'm impressed at most. CPU usage went from 33% to 17% with even lower latency than before (256 samples vs. 512) and even if CPU is quite overloaded (90%), there's not a single pop or audible drop (unlike ASIO4ALL which caused me frequent buffer underruns).
LatencyMon shows green values on all my computers.
Now I can also make music with my "weakest" laptop, 1.86GHz C2D Penryn.

Stay tuned for tips & tricks - How to make music with Kontakt on systems with 4GB RAM and less.