Thank you @Gyro Gearloose First "news" so far and informative.
The Thread has been in lack of "news" so far, but was spiced with A LOT of shit and piss (What's not even humor for me).

As I said, I feel NI is on the wrong way:

• "A company on the path of abrupt shrinkage (600+ employees in 2018 to less then 400 employees in 2019)"
• "Mass layoffs the last 2 years (30 people in USA in 2018; 20 people in Germany in 2019)"
• "Constant cancellation of projects some being cancelled right before the release with the losses measured in many millions of euros - which is then compensated by cutting down the costs on personnel by means of mass layoffs."

Now I understand why they must stop support for older VSTs .
It's a vicious circle to lay off personnel an stopping support for software what leads to less sales that induces more layoffs.

 

Last edited: Mar 15, 2020

@Gyro Gearloose Haha we had the same thoughts...
But as I said before it doesn't show the situation for 2019/2020 and in lack of a profit and loss account (G+V) doesn't say much. You should paste the passive part as well as it contains at least profit/loss in summa.
In 2017 there was a loss of 600.000€ in 2016 a profit of 100.000€ but the had a capital reserve of more than 40 Million Euros in 2018.
The last profit & loss account was from 2015. There one can find a line 15 called "Aufwendungen aufgrund eines Gewinnabführungsvertrages" with drian offs millions of € profit. That may have lead to the massive layoffs in the last year because the company in the background tries to squeeze out as much mony as possible, and the easiest way is of course to lay off employees.
This is often a short-sighted measure because the company is only better off in the short term, but worse off in the long term.
In the end, however, it is always difficult to read a balance sheet of a German company, because it is used as a tax balance sheet to calculate artificially poor in order to save taxes, at least to the extent permitted by law.

 

Last edited: Mar 15, 2020

I'm afraid to reply

 

twoheart...

 

Last edited: Mar 15, 2020

mmh

 

But this is just quessing. No facts. As long there is no official post from NI about their earnings I am not really sure what I have to take seriously. Most of these opinions are just based on thoughts and frustration.

A lot of people are saying here that they are going down without any doubts, but where exactly is this based on? I think just on thoughts, but not on facts. And how can we know if they are really going down? Yes, by taking a look at their profits for instance.

What if they start making more money than they ever do? Are they doing badly then? No, I don't think so. Are they going down? No, I don't think so. The purpose of a company is to make money and a company needs to be looking at ways to increase their profits or being more profitable on a normal way at all times. If a company starts to make a lot more money, then we can't really deny that they are doing great in this kind of view, because making money is number one priority for a company.

As long a lot of people wants to buy products from a company, then why should they change it? To be honest we are also getting screwed by companies like Apple that are selling their Iphones for like 500% or more than what it has cost. That's also quite bizarre.

In my opinion some libraries from 8Dio for instance are also really overpriced, but if it works for them to get a lot of sales and are really profitable, then they aren't doing anything badly. Asking like €300 for a digital compressor is also way too extreme in my opinion, but yeah likely a lot of people are thinking different than me. It's just business and all about supply and demand. A company is not going to change their policy, because a minority doesn't agree with it.

Although, I don't really agree with some of the ideas and changes from NI aswell. For instance obligating people to buy a newer version of a product without getting the chance to still use the old product is just very awful.

 

"I dOn't LIkE It thErEfOr Its gArbAgE And yOU cAnt LIkE It EIthEr"

I've never seen such ridiculous and vitriolic responses towards something that's harming literally no one. Even if it is a garbage synth, and their sample packs are complete trash, who gives a shit? Hip hop producers make music too, and they like sample packs just as much as you do.

If Native Instruments is so shit then go buy a different synth and move the fuck on and stop whining like a petulant little child. If you're as old and experienced as you say you are then you should be ashamed; I've seen 14 year olds with more maturity.

Threads like this are a cancer on this forum.

 

The data Gyro Gearloose posted is official data from the public records of the german corporate register for the year 2018. So it can't get any more official than this What one makes of it is another story of course. I know I can't decipher this. But somebody else may be able to draw some conclusions about it.

 

I don't speak German, but Google Translate works well enough to get the gist of it.

It's pretty bog standard financial reporting. They're increasing gross and net income (13% increase over 2017), keeping debt at a steady level (likely in hopes to pay it off easier down the road), they seem to be paying less in taxes, their collaborative income is increasing (albeit not much), and they're paying 19% more in salaries and other benefits.

All this really says to the general public is that they're operating relatively normally. Without a larger historical context, as well as a statement of action from the COO, there's nothing significant that we can extrapolate from that information.

 

there s too much going on and i am a hundred posts behind, so rather than constructively getting involved with a conversation i am just going to have a jab at a couple of things that caught my eye...

pure gold ^
i would love to see somebody try to argue that logic

i love that you only listen to contributions that dont offend you. do you literally put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and shout "LA LA LA LA LA"
and its not really a discussion if you are not listening is it? isnt that just you saying your piece then not giving a FUCK about other peoples side?

most people just look after their gear.
i have trainers (not nike, im a rebok guy) that i have had for about 10 years and they still work great.
i also have audio gear that i have had for almost as long, some stuff even longer. most of it works perfectly.
and plastic and PCBs are more destructive to the eco system than you think. you should spend some time on duckduckgo with that one. passed on or not, they are still being built and will still end up in the ground, for what? to fuel the capitalist machine.

 

No, you got that wrong. It's just hard to take people seriously who are not able to make sentences that do not contain at least one swearword.

 

Alright, then I was reading it wrong probably. Well, my bad

I just based my opinion on a previous post from him that was quoted where someone said in it multiple times that this was just quessing. So yeah

It's a shame that there are no results for the year 2019/2020. So it still remains a bit hard to really decide if they are going down or not.

 

this is quite informative.. looks like they have big money but, they wasting it.
Massive X was no good for me too, it was not special or user friendly

@Gyro Gearloose what is the pic you posted, NI profit statement?

 

team threads are this is not

its not bout that at all...

 

why?

 

Word. How can anyone argue with someone who's been using native instruments since before the transistor was invented. Btw, i too was a user of native instruments when they were good. Here's my set:

Absolutely. I already am losing sleep over Massive X being so bad. The other night i had a wet dream of Massive X's wavetables inside Serum rockin' some thrilling 3 note EDM hook of epic proportions, stadium mover kinda thing. Now that was music bruh. Unfortunately i woke up and forgot the hook. Too complex.

For real. I can see a Predator Falcon on the horizon having Kontakt with a fierce Gladiator near some dangerous Rapid. Lolz i am slowly turning to a Prophet.

Yep now that sounds dangerous alright. With that Cortana virus being a thing and all...
https://www.livescience.com/63831-squirrel-brains-rare-disorder-creutzfeldt-jakob-disease.html

I dunno 'bout him, i'm really serious when i'm fucking. Honestly.
Cheers

 

Last edited: Mar 15, 2020

me too! i dont understand those people who giggle a lot. whats with that??? oh i slipped out because ive done 500mg of mandy and a gram of top grade coke and the viagra hasnt kicked in yet. give me 10 minutes bitch, we will see whos giggling then!

 

Is uses vocals as a sound source, to call it a "choir library" I think would be wrong as the original post stated "another choir library" like it's another typical choir library for writing music. It's not as you can't write choir lines with it and most of it is atonal. "Useless" in your opinion and to many people yes, if you were composing for a horror game then it might be extremely useful.

Just because YOU don't like something or don't find it useful, does not make it "shit" it's just your opinion. Massive X was made by the original programmer who made Massive so either you think these programmers are "shit" and shouldn't be culled or you think they should be saved, make your mind up?

Native Instruments also hired a lot of staff, they laid off people from one department as they wanted to focus on other things.

"jesus christ... thats squirrel brained and impatient short term, materialist, vapid, hungry, capitalism to the max, congrats!!" - What do you think they are a charity or something?

Get real. You sound very childish here and why should NI focus on making synth products for people like you to download cracked anyway? What incentive is there when the composer market is much bigger and lucrative to them.

 

Their profits and net worth are public like with most companies. NI are focusing a lot more on hardware such as the new MIDI 2.0 Keyboards they have coming out soon which costs a lot more money in development than just coding a synth.