Hi everyone,

With my gipsy jazz duet (accordion / guitar), we decided to record our first album at home. We have a very small budget, and so small equipment ; accordion is taken with Prodipe static mics (designed for it), and guitar by a static usb mic (thomann).

We're pretty much "happy" with the recorded sound, even if there is some mic bleed in the guitar. I succeeded in applying some EQ to clear the spectrum and clarify everything.

Problem is now, I'm not able to "make it sound good". I try some reverb presets, but everytime it doesn't sound "natural" at all. It's a bit better, but we ear the reverb a lot, sounding not so good..

Here are my first premix : https://drive.google.com/open?id=11qMFI ... PVD8hRYA6s

Can you give me some idea about global EQ ? Maybe I completely missed something ?

I'd like to go for a sound near these references :

- https://www.deezer.com/fr/album/125377822
- https://www.deezer.com/fr/album/99571
- https://www.deezer.com/fr/album/10913064

Do you have some advice ? A specific reverb settings, some effect, frequencies to put behind ? I'm working with Studio One 4.5

Thanks !
Jérémy

 

The first two deezer compared to yours:
- more instruments (you can't compensate this in the mix) (arrangement)
- more low mids and lows (mix, maybe recording)
- played louder and faster (style)
- less detailed sounds (means yours sound clearer) (recording)
- shorter reverb, more damped in the highs (mix)

Third deezer compared to yours:
- played more aggressive (style)
- more details (recording)
- more high freqs in the instruments (mix)
- a lot of (too much) compression and limiting (mix)
- reverb is very similar

Ah, and welcome to THE forum.

 

sounds good to me, needs to be mastered. your mix sounds more hi-fi compared to the reference tracks, probably they recorded onto tape or ran through tape-emu plugin i dunno.run it through some vintage preset on izotope ozone 8 and you are gold

 

What reverb(s) do you use?
Convolution reverbs might sound nice with your instruments,something like Altiverb if you use algorithmic reverbs.

 

+1 to No Avengers response, plus, I'm missing definition, presence in the sound, probably the recording. but also equal sounding reverb due to crosstalk. I would record again, choosing closer mic placement. In what room do you record, is it treated somehow?
Your USB mic, think I'd change it with a nice condenser, up close, in front of the guitar. This would achieve better instrument separation, from where you could treat them with different reverb & EQ settings.
But a good sounding room is where a good sounding recording starts.

 

Jérémy: I love this demo
I have already recorded your music on a cassette, I will listen to it in my Citroen 2CV the next time I go to Montmartre among old libraries and artists painting portraits
W la France

 

Wow, didn't expect so much answers in such a short time, thanks guys !

According to your posts and some personal thinking, I realize it might be missing something directly in our playing that any mixing won't be able to reproduce. We were clearly aware of the lack of some instruments (doublebass and rythm guitar), but that's also the point of the duet. However we didn't realize that maybe we have to play more "aggressively" to match the style standards. That's a very good point, leading to some work with the music itself !

For the other things, I'll try to answer independently :

NoAvenger

"- more low mids and lows (mix, maybe recording)"
> I've cutted a lot in the low, 'cause of the guitar resonating quite low ; can I compete with such songs when I have no instrument at all in the low range ? Maybe I should try to make the guitar sound a bit lower ?
I've cutted in the low mid too by supressing frequencies that were resonating, maybe I can let pass some more ?

"- less detailed sounds (means yours sound clearer) (recording)"
> You mean there is more details in MY mix ? Sounds like a good thing to me, am I wrong ? :]

"- shorter reverb, more damped in the highs (mix)"
> I'll try something with that, 'cause it's clearly the kind of reverb I like - very discrete but sounding really nice. Using a room preset (and custom it) sounds right or am I totally wrong ?
Do you think of other effects they might have used ? Clearly the first 2 mix are the better references for what I want to do

"- more high freqs in the instruments (mix)"
> I may try that too, but generally I find it quite aggressive when I put more high

"- a lot of (too much) compression and limiting (mix)"
> Well, that's something I really have a lot of pain to ear... For trying to ear it better, do you think you could give me like the "level" of compression for each deezer ?

"Ah, and welcome to THE forum."
> I realize that yeah, should clearly bookmark it !

korte1975 > Thanks, I'll give a look at izotope !

Blue > I'm basically using room reverb (Studio One plugin), trying to play with it.. But to be honest, I mostly turn buttons randomly =D

boomoperator > can I somehow reduce the crosstalk ? Or maybe play with it, bypassing reverb on the accordion for example ?
For now re-recording is not an option ; we're quite in a hurry with the time, and moreover we can't change our tools (mics, ...). The only solution would be to record separetely, but this will probably sound less natural as it is mainly improvised music. :/ We're trying to do our best with what we have here
The room we record is simply my living room, no treatment at all ; I chose it 'cause it have some space, I thought it would be better. Maybe I'm wrong, would it be better like for example in the cave or a smaller room ?
I don't know that much about mic placement, but they were really close ; for the accordion they are attached to it, so can't be closer. The guitar mic was just near the sound hole.

recycle > ahah, thanks !

--

Another thing that seems problematic is the stereo image, particularely when switching between accordion and guitar role (solo / rythmic) ; it's like we're having two different songs playing. Do you have some advice for that ?

Thanks again !

 

Maybe attenuating works better than cutting. Especially a dynamic EQ works fine if some resonances occur only temporarily.
No, as I said, you can't achieve the fullness and low end with only one guitar and one accordion.

Yes, compared to the the first two deezer examples your tracks have more details.

An appropriately adjusted room reverb should work.

Another issues in your first trackis that there're a few spikes way above the rest. I found ~ a dozen spikes up to 4.xdB above the rest (you should check the other tracks for this too). You can cut these with a limiter and the whole mix will louder. With -21LUFS at -1TP your mix is too low.
If you do this, levelwise you should already be fine, maybe add a compressor to the guitar with ~ 2dB gain reduction for sound. Something like Klanghelm MJUC with adjustable Timbre and Drive should work.

The third deezer track is in deed more aggressive than yours are but this isn't better, quite the opposite I'd say.

Last not least, you need some experience to record an acoustic guitar properly. With different mics, different characteristics, distance, position and angle you can change the recorded sound a lot.

 

Hi !

I worked on the songs, and did some more mixing (and mastering) ; here are the masters : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ao0rqdtLevJvYBeCjhDlqDL8ZXkNfXKu

I also found a new reference, in the same config as ours (accordion / guitar) : https://www.deezer.com/fr/album/9443494

I found my master sounding "confined" compared to them, do you have any idea how I can approach their sound ? (Even if they probably have way better recording I know :/)

 

Differences you can't change in your mix:
- instruments, performance, mics.

Differences in your mix you can change (to get you there):
- higher level below 100Hz
- lower level ~ 400Hz
- more stereo separation
- more reverb

 

Thanks for your answer !

When you say "more reverb", what do you mean ? 'Cause in their mix, it's like I can't hear the reverb but there is a lot of space and warm sound. In my mix, when I try to add more reverb (biggger reverb or more reverb volume), it result in something really obvious and not so tasty.
For example, and to try to hear it, can you define what type of reverb they are using listening to their songs ?

Thanks again, that's a great help !

 

More like in 'higher level'.

I didn't really try find what comes most close, but I suppose it has ~ 2,6sec decay quite some high dampening and a bit of low dampening. Not necessarily by dialing it in, could be already in the reverb itself (impulse).
Finding a good reverb is not easy. Maybe exaggerate the level to find the appropriate sound.

I mainly compared Deuce Joie with Bilies Bounce Premaster. So, there might be other differences in the other tracks.