Only from royalty receivers. It's already happened with Spotify and every streamer before his video. Who cares about the publicity? Anyone that is genuinely concerned will do their own research in their home country with ASCAP, BMI, APRA, SESAC, SACEM, GEMA, GAE, PRS etc etc etc

 

It seems to me that the majority of posters here have never been commissioned for TV work. Some of the responses here are simply too ignorant to ignore.

Firstly, the very REASON that people like myself get these gigs is BECAUSE library music doesn't always cut it. Not that some of it isn't good - some of it is great, it's just that it won't enhance or support a given scene because it wasn't scored for that scene. Also, many editors complain to me that the libraries that they're forced (yes, forced) to employ have been overused to the point where the few good tracks have become ubiquitous. This leads to a TV show not having its own personality. Christian is completely correct when he states that this cynical money-grabbing by TV producers is ultimately self-harming but the REAL problem here is that ultimately this devalues what all of us here do - create music.

If people won't pay you, they won't respect or value what you do. If that's ok with you, fine, but please don't be so ignorant as to shoot the messenger who after all is only asking that we get paid for our work.

 

Music has no value any more. It's a commodity, like corn, or soybeans. "What's the going rate on the exchange today for 150 pounds of music?"

 

Well, you're right in one way, but your own words defeat you.

Yes, music is a commodity. And like corn or soybeans or anything else, it has a value. The value is what the market will pay vs what the composer will charge.

So unless you're receiving your corn or soybeans for free, you're either a paying customer or a thief. I'm certain its not the latter.

 

Compare and contrast. You subconciously know it's fair!

Is there any evidence anywhere that anything like this supposed threat actually ever even happened? Can we be sure that (for example) Christian didn't start this rumor himself to jack up his (and Paul's) royalties with Discovery? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I should have qualified, "appreciable" value.

 

Um, yes. It's all over the trade mags - see: Variety, for example.

Music has paid for my house, my car, my holidays, my kids school fees. Music most certainly has a monetary value, if not always an aesthetic one.

 

Last edited: Jan 6, 2020

Anything is possible. But you have to ask why bother expounding so much energy to repeat the same point over and over in different ways on why it is bad for all composers, not just himself and name the Discovery Channel if it was not true?
You do understand if the Discovery Channel decided to sue him, they could very easily for slander and defamation if the information was false?
I thought that may seem obvious?
The easiest way to prove your theory is to see if they have instigated a lawsuit. A company that big would have no qualms suing someone who damaged their reputation with incorrect information.

 

BOOM! Ditto - not to mention, all my instruments, amplifiers, gear, accessories, computer, DAW, Keys, plugins....so on and so forth.

 

For Famous Slut's edification and consideration.

A rather succinct article on this subject and why it matters.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/12/discovery-composers-royalty-payments-1202197793/


“This 90% drop of income will not only affect composers. It will dramatically affect the income of musicians, recording engineers, studios and affect the purchase of music gear, music and sample software, etc.,” he wrote. “There will be a big ‘downstream’ effect.”

 

Just a thought, if Discovery pays a composer to score a show or series, then demands that the composer sign over their royalties upon pain of the already composed and paid for music being replaced with library, doesn't that simply mean they end up paying for:

The Library music.
New tracklay - suite/editor/s.
New audio mix. Definitely costing serious dollars in studio time/engineers fees.
New LTO's (or whatever deliverable format they require) to be made, copied and distributed.

...and they certainly won't be garnishing the royalties of the library company or composers.

Yikes. Lose, lose, lose.

Good luck, Mr Discovery.

 

Yeah, the rumor has circulated widely. But if (as is claimed) Discovery actually proposed this, there would be paperwork, hard evidence. None provided by Christian. A lot of hot air, tho. Combined with a clickbait title, it all smacks of publicity, gamesmanship. Someone suggested earlier that a library had tried to double their rate. Seems like it was Paul & Christian who got turned down.

As I said earlier, in a lot of territories this (so-called) threat is literally impossible, anyway, when the rights are owned by the PRO. If Discovery tried to use even stock music in (ie) the EU, they would still end up paying royalties.

 

Hey, we all get that it pays to be careful and perhaps even sceptical and cynical as a result in some cases. There still has to be a measure of common sense though. The publicity aspect is not important truly. If people gain awareness to never accept anything other than ownership and royalties for their hard-earned compositional works, that's a good thing. My personal dislikes could say if Kanye posted it, I might feel as you do, perhaps. But to be honest, even though I do not particularly think much of his skills at all or much else, the message if it was pertinent to all musicians, I would still try and look at it logically.
As for the video here - He'd be sued if it was not true. Discovery has sued others.

 

All you gotta do to be Henderson is download native instruments action strikes

 

At the present time this information has been passed between Discovery and select composers, I have no idea if Christian is one of them, but he is certainly well connected and I have no doubt that these claims are true. I myself have been forced into deals like this by the likes of Beyond International, when I was younger and more naive, and was recently asked to comply with Netflix - which I refused. Luckily for me they didn't play hardball.

IOW - this shit happens and it is a growing concern for any and all creatives.

PRO rights may or may not figure in the future as Discovery will essentially be demanding that composers sign to their internal publishing in the limited capacity of the works performed for their usage.

As for Discovery having to pay for library, this is true, but they will form alliances with certain library distributers at massive cut rates (as they can offer massive usage) which will involve no initial fees at all and a substantial saving for a substandard product. My post above might explain the hefty costs that Discovery will incur should a composer refuse to sign away their rights and thereby force Discovery to library an entire series.

 

TV stations were notorious in the 80s and 90s for trying this to avoid paying every time they did an advertisement and used your music for the coming episode, News etc etc. Got caught once. It only needs to happen once.

 

Is that a lot considering supply? Also considering the payout scales between vocal/instrumental that number seems weak...

 

He and Paul Thompson have got over a decade of royalties from Discovery for Project Earth and for a couple of films on their networks, I think. Admittedly, it's not likely to be evening ABC rate, and shared, but still. Discovery has a lot of sister channels, so it might add up to a lot? I'm more interested to hear back from Christian about what hard evidence he can provide (as one of their creators) from Discovery, an email even, to back up this video? Not gonna hold my breath. I'm not sure why it all feels so manipulative, but it rly does; there's too much doublespeak. Maybe he should've got Paul to do the vid. I'd prolly be at the Discovery barricades with napalm between my teeth by now!

Well, I'm not sure about how much Variety will stand up for a "confidential" source, but there's likely no way they'd be able to, nobody to sue. It's a great story, though. An awesome rant! Who cares if it's true! I don't know, though, before I'm asked to get good and mad "for the love of all music", I'd like to have some evidence. Which has been requested. And none provided.

 

Last edited: Jan 7, 2020

I don't know that getting mad at anything solves anything. I am sure everyone has been on both sides of that at least once.
I do think that knowing some people are considering preventing or removing a part of income that musicians have had for a very long time is worth knowing though. Like keeping ones radar up.

 

Yeah, it's like someone said about playing to the choir or pushing at an open door or w/e. I just wish I could actually believe what Christian is selling. It seems too much to believe, in some cases logically impossible to swallow. Christian and Paul are big enough names to have plenty of contact with Discovery about their work over the decades, they could and would provide the emails if they existed. It just feels like we're all being manipulated. Someone has said something to the effect that it was a library owner trying to double their rate, using the (release of this) story as a threat. I don't rly want to be part of the like culture that feeds that, which is what we're in danger of doing if we're not more careful about evidence and objectivity before reacting instinctively and emotionally, in "y(our) best interests".

Like something someone like Yoda (except more adorable) said. About keeping your radar aimed up. Although away from pigeons. Or something. Unless you like your birds cooked as they pass overhead and then they end up in your sauna, which would annoy even Gordon Ramsey. Actually baby Yoda prolly never said anything like that. He prolly loves all wildlife equally. As an entree. Also saunas. As an aperitif. Look, just don't invite him to parties, ok?!