The power of limitation

 

I'll ignore most of the empty woffle from your reply and focus on just the sentences below

============

MMJ said...

"I am going to expose you right this moment.
Instead of generic storytelling and name calling.
I want to to specifically articulate and demonstrate what you are talking about.
That's all you can do is say words like " junk" and " inaccurate "
But what you have never accomplished to to point to something and demonstrate something.
...
I'm asking you do stop with the vague words .
Just demonstrate something .
...
Now it's your turn .
Demonstrate something."

===========


Challenge accepted - in full!

I'm busy today but come back in (say) about 12 hours time and I will have published the full reality check; one that fully exposes the thoroughly incompetent nature of your so-called theory posts. It will be a bore for me to write it, necessarily long, and regrettably tedious for others to read it too, but it will be exactly what you asked for when you said.
"I want to to specifically articulate and demonstrate what you are talking about"

Watch this space.

 

But Ad, MMJ is stiff-necked and lots of comrades support him. Take care.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2019

Thank you for letting me know that you soon are going to say something specific

( Just not this time.or the time before..
The time before....the time before ...)

But Im excited to see what you cook up.

A bore for you write out tedious others to read yet this is so important to yo to justify what you been saying ?

( prioritization and heesive )

Great , I can't wait to list out the things you didn't take into consideration. Subsequently challenging you to create a theory thread by your own " standards"
So that you and me and everyone can see how your ideas pan out by testing them in real life.

Imagination is great ( when your using it on purpose..

So let's figure this out A & B or A or B?


A. You make a theory thread by your own " standards" we all see how it does .

B. You and me have a music making challenge judged by others for the plain fun of it.

 

Last edited: Dec 15, 2019

Two men enter, one man leaves.

 

Note I'm joking not angry at all .
I like ad heesive .just trying add some humour

 

Last edited: Dec 15, 2019

The theories to some extent ensure that your results will sound plausible, and with luck may be beautiful or not.

 

Well yes, you still have a lot further to go . It's a small aspect ( yet important )
You still have to do all the things you would have done with no theory.
Just like writing a blueprint for a house, you still have to build the house!
( As opposed to building a house " eyeballing it "
No planning.)
But let's say you want a simple song .
You might only need small amount of theory .
To get it turning out good by your standards

 

Eagerly waiting your love for theories makes you to proceed a bit to Aesthetic Theories too.

 

boom......ignore button wins

 

That's where I started years before .
I focused on sound design timbre , texture , production , engineering, mastering
For years and was even against music theory.
Back then. After a while something hit me
( After making and recording hundreds songs of my own and couple thousand songs of other artists groups.)
I realized that I could come up with something in a moment of time to fit a part , but I didn't know every possibility.
I started to relize that I needed to add more to the whole music category than focusing on timbre texture beats production engineering .
In order to reach a new goal .
To understand every possibility in a given situation.
( Instead of coming up with 1 or 2 choices in a given situation )
That led me to music theory .
12tone e.t.
These music languages .
Tonal music language
Modal music language
Polytonal language
Atonal language.
They have their own patterns and innerworkings .
( But once you know the patterns and combinations (
You have a way to know all possibilities in a certain moment your trying to make something .
( Your musical vision is top priority )
The knowledge from music theory is only good to make your musical vision happen .
Music theory assists free will.
Free will is in a moment your ability to choose.
( But how can you choose what your unaware of ?)
I believe what's really important is that you have a way to create ( choose from everything to select what's inside you )

With me free will , I focus on
12tone e.t. languages
It's what I like.( Instead of ratio temperaments or 57 tone et.)
The 12 gives each note it's it' sound,
The equal spacing tuning means multiple keys per note)
If you used ratio tuning pathog or just intonation
You don't get as many options.
Also I don't like just intonation.
Chords are not really chords but just adding harmonics to 1 note .
So that's why it stick with 12 tone equal temperament.
It's because
I category tried all others and denied them for my taste.
But what I recommend for others .
Is not to just choose 12 tone equal temperament.
Look at all of them.
Select the one or ones that best suit your needs.

 

Last edited: Dec 15, 2019

hey crisis......no one could give a rats what you do mate...dance...dont dance....your opinion on this subject is just your opinion.....you are free to say what you want...however.... if you should happen to say ridiculous nonsense....the reader isa free to reject it....dont get hung up on genre friend......genre and music styles are meaningless drivel and tht will sap your concentration....mmj is simply providing some good markers for you to use as brain fuel in pursuing your creative desires...i defy anyone to point out one word from mmj that proscribes any style of music over any other????? impossible.. try to take in the info provided...if its not up your street mate...clik on another link and move on....no one is asking you to dig this stuff...its voluntary....but please dont bore us with this defensive stance....

 

ooo careful lager........you almost got the point.....almost

 

But imo, it's almost impossible to know every possibility. Even if you know, it's almost impossible to choose strings of possibilities for making a whole. You choose randomly most of the time.

 

This is right, I don't think one genre is better than another. What I think is that there is something to gained by understanding what is involved in one or another. I talk about jazz a lot because it's not as apparent at first glance what makes it work.
I do not talk as much about rock, metal, hip hop etc.
Because what is involved in them are apparent on the surface . ( Yet there is value in understanding how these work .)
The information I share with you is meant for you to use it in a way that's applicable to your artistry.

 

That is the way I used to work , but I changed it .
To select from all possibilities that which express my music vision

I can show you an example below


( KEY of C major )
Progression is
C6( tonic/F#dim7( subdominant)F6(subdom(G7(dom

C6 CEGA
F#dim7 CEbGbA
F6 FACD
G7 G#BDF

Now here is that form
Repeated 4 times ( however it's repeating descending through the voice leading using inversions)
If you begin at highest octave and keep playing it down to the lowest octave .

Here are the exact Voicings ( low to high

AEGC..AD#F#C..ADFC..G#DFB..
GCEA..F#CEA..FCDA..FBDG#..
EACG..D#ACF#..DACF..DG#BF
CGAE..CF#AD#..CFAD..BFG#D..

Now that is the first octave .
The form now begins in the next octave below where it started.

AEGC..AD#F#C..ADFC..G#DFB..
GCEA..F#CEA..FCDA..FBDG#..
EACG..D#ACF#..DACF..DG#BF
CGAE..CF#AD#..CFAD..BFG#D..
AEGC..AD#F#C..ADFC..G#DFB..
GCEA..F#CEA..FCDA..FBDG#..
EACG..D#ACF#..DACF..DG#BF
CGAE..CF#AD#..CFAD..BFG#D..
AEGC..AD#F#C..ADFC..G#DFB..
GCEA..F#CEA..FCDA..FBDG#..
EACG..D#ACF#..DACF..DG#BF
CGAE..CF#AD#..CFAD..BFG#D..
AEGC..AD#F#C..ADFC..G#DFB..
GCEA..F#CEA..FCDA..FBDG#..
EACG..D#ACF#..DACF..DG#BF
CGAE..CF#AD#..CFAD..BFG#D..

So this is demonstrating taking a form .

Then 1 voicing at a time voice leading to next chord
The progression covers the entire instrument .

Do you believe that could accidentally be done?

With myself I use the music theory to run through every possibility of a form like that ,
( Not to come up with a part in a moment of time for like a song )
It's a bigger picture thing.
I'm just wondering if that aspect you believe without music theory one could know every possibility available to them ( for any particular form they decide to use )
Like above cover the whole instrument in each note, then chord, then chord progression
All while going chord to chord only changing the notes that change by the smallest amount .
( Voice leading )
Where once you select a chord progression you can cover all octaves and inversions .

You see above , once you cover the entire instrument with your progression,
Now you can create Any melodic motion or direction you want while having a harmony attached to each note then finally you attach a rhythm to your melody/harmony.
This means you can play 1 million melodies ( with harmony and rhythm .
That all equally represent that progression .
C6/ F#dim/ F6/ G7/

This means you have unlimited variation.
Total freedom to express anything possible.

You could take that progression write 72 hours of music that never repeats it self a single time .
( Which outlines the progression perfectly )

Last edited: Today at 12:30 PM

Here is how it works.


You begin with a situation in this example of seeing every possibility.

The situation is the KEY of C major .

Next the Progression is
C6/ F#dim7/ F6/ G7/

Now let's just say you got that far
( Meaning to select those variables matched what you want to accomplish with your vision .)
You could have selected any other key or progression
Depending on what suits that vision.
However
Once one is selected
( These criteria in the example )
I then show how to understand every possibility
In terms of the harmony component and melody component .
You can build a infinite number of licks riffs melodies lines or stacked harmonies now with every possibility shown above for this form of
C major and that progression.

 

Last edited: Dec 15, 2019

My threads are about helping you get ideas and see you musical vision through .
I never want to to create music that you don't love .
In fact you should make the goal that what your working on has to be the best music you ever heard!
( Now any point it hasn't gotten there yet don't give up it just means it needs work and that's when you trust in yourself and possibly get new inspiration ideas or techniques )
Never make music unless you have a vision before you start .
( Practicing is different , that's separate thing where you run through possibilities)
But I mean if your recording or composing .
Make your vision before you start .
Have making your songs match the way you speak.
( You speak because you know what to say because it matters to say it , you never start speaking then deciding middle of the way what it's going be About can you imagine how weak that would be?

 

What is the shortest answer for how to understand every possibility for say a single chord ?

First you select the chord based in which one is meeting your vision .
Let's say I select .

Aminor7
ACEG.

How can I understand all the possibilities so far?

Answer .

Cover the instrument with the chord .
( All inversions all octaves low to high )

To do this in this example we will select 1 type of voicing called Drop2.
Now we have 4 notes so 4 Voicings per octave .

Amin7 ACEG is the chord and here is the Voicings
) Low note to high note

AEGC
That first voicing .we move down to next not if the chord .
GCEA
Continue this process .
AEGC
GCEA
EACG
CGAE
Now we repeat except continue lower
AEGC
GCEA
EACG
CGAE
AEGC
GCEA
EACG
CGAE
AEGC
GCEA
EACG
CGAE

Now we have all inversions in all octaves of the instrument .
The whole Instrument is covered with this chord .
We can build anything out if them 4 notes now.
Any melody which also attaches to a harmony .
And even create a infinite number of melodies or harnonies out of this one chord as long or as short as we want.
Because in this specific context we easily see every possibility.

 

I was thinking like this some years ago but it's not a good way for making masterpieces. It applies faintly only to guitar and jazz piano.

 

That's one small simple example .that's all
The comment farther up goes into a slightly more advanced example .
What my point is , that you lay out every possibility
At the moment where you express a free will.
So that example is choosing a chord is free will next your going to choose what to do with it so look at the whole instrument covered in it

Lest say it was a different place of free will .

Selecting a sound layer a timbre .

A synthesized sound.
You lay out your possibilities

What about selecting your tempo?
Think about the feeling it needs to be and from all possible values select which one suits your desire vision.
There's no rolling any dice it's all with meaning and purpose

Tell me a master peice I'll tell you what choices were made to assemble it and reverse engineer it.


The creativity as a composer cines from making something that was your vision that exactly matches what you wanted.

Just like speaking a sentence.

When we random select words and letters based on the sound or visual shape it comes out bad.
But a creative sentence is expressing a deeper meaning in a articulate way that's understandable by the person hearing it or reading it.


Figegkjh dhjnifh jfduj hfrui 88frth

That's not creative , I randomly chose.

Compare them two sentences .
One is just shapes but the other
The letters and words disappear and the meaning comes into focus .
Music is the same way.
You want to have meaning and purpose shine .

Make the actual sounds and movements the vehicle for meaning..

 

Last edited: Dec 16, 2019