I am sure they didnt give him all the products and that is also not what Giancarlo said.

Also, what disturbs me personally the most about this whole topic: Do some of you really want to insist on keeping advantage of clear (or sometimes on first sight not so clear) mistakes by others? Honest answers to this are deeply welcome!
Because if one does insist on being allowed to take advanteges of someone elses mistakes, which world would we end up? (Please dont reply that would be the world anyway, that is not true and even if so, then here is your chance to make an actual difference - it is not natural law!)
And I am not the one bringing the moral into this discussion, eventhough it has been a moral one for me personally the whole time.

Most of the people here are so eager about AAs products and most of us would have loved to make this big sale for ~100€ for all their products. Think a moment what it would have meant if not just 5, 50, but - lets say - 1000 people would have bought the whole product line that way. After all, during the glitch sale, noone could knew it would only be quite a little count of people buying with the wrongly calculated discount. It might have been very likely that AAs could have lost important resources for future releases and at some point (I am exaggerating here) could have said: fuck it, thats not worth it or just not possible anymore. So "we" (the ones enjoying their products and benefitting from them) could have ended up with a blood-drained company (again, I am exaggerating but no one could have knewn otherwise!) What would you do in the position of the developer?

If you answers to the two last highlighted questions are: "fuck it, I want what I "deserve" and I dont care about the consequences!"
Well, then I at least know where you are coming from and I can spare my time discussing the outcomes of your acting.

After all, my experiences with AA and their support have always been very satisfying and I bet everything, if Exodus would have contaced them with a different attitude, they might had given him the sale just as it happened or otherwise a big, juicy offer instead.

Maybe people here could think more about, how they would react as the seller, not just as the buyer.

 

this comment get converted 63%

 

Last edited: Dec 6, 2019

seems avid had lost a few protools accounts this way recently...

 

If this is a 100% unconditional customer satisfaction policy, it seems fair to me when it is valid for both sides. If whitin a defined time-frame the transaction could be rolled back by both customer and vendor, that's just fair.

 

We can't do "better". Refund is the ultimate solution. This is a refund
Yes it is two sides

 

Of course we should.

 

Last edited: Dec 6, 2019

I will be short now, but I will write more analytical answer after I finish work.
1. I never said that I want full rebate (although I can probably achieve this in a case infront of the EU Conciliation Board, I understand and agree with the moral side of the story).
2. The reason I created the whistle-post was because I thought there is something in the lines of a hidden promo where the first X customers receive bigger discounts and I asked a mod to take it down the moment I realized there is a glitch.
3. What would have happened if I had registered all or some of the products license slots?

 

one more thing: if AA had approached me with at least some details and open attitude instead of the blunt - "Hey, we sold you these goods and you had them for almost a week but during that time we decided that you can't have them anymore. Here is your money back, we already took the goods from you" than my reaction would have been different....

 

This is not a good example because no matter how many copies of your products you sell, your own costs wont increase, because you already developed that Software. If I sell 5 cars, even as manufacturer i at least have to buy Parts and Material for 5 cars, so selling 5 cars increase my costs compared to selling 1. Thats not the case with Software. You develop it = costs, you duplicate it = no costs.
It's your Shop, you are responsible for it. If someone hacked you, that would be another thing. He just went the way that you as the Company are telling us to go. Like he said, he thought of it more like some Kind of special hidden sale.

But let's make it short: you could instead of getting 0$ have just taken his 100$ and Made 100$ and a lot of people round here would have realized how polite this Company is and maybe you would have Made a few thousands from New customers here that find you worth supporting. But instead of that you send him an automated email and now Act like it was his fault and he did it on purpose and act like he stole from you. He just went to the checkout and was ok with what you asked him to pay. Like your customers were responsible for your pricing System. Blame it on the ones that built your Shop!
Cant speak for others here but for me this is a reason to stay away from your Company. But you should be aware of how much of a difference it would have Made if 50 people round here saw how polite you are and now decided to buy products from you, or if 50 people like me now decide to not buy a Single product from you because of the way you treat your customers...
And for the Moral ones here.. let's stick to the car example. As if you would Start a discussion with me if I Sold you a car worth 30k for 15k... You would also take advantage of it, I mean why not, I Made the price, not you.

 

just received a reply from AA Support... they had the arrogance to imply a thread with police investigation in terms of money laundry, connected with buying goods under the standered market price...

 

Last edited: Dec 6, 2019

That is not a good comparison, because this does not reflect properly, how much percentage were misscalculated.

A better compare would be:
You are selling cars, with an automcatic cash out system and offer: "buy one car and get one free". By accident and mistake (which could happen to everyone, right?), the system gives not one car free to the one being bought, but just as many, as you wish. So one guy (@Exidus) buys one car and takes another 20 cars with him.
But just not that, he also writes in a forum about it, how "surprisingly" cheap the cars have been. Then he thinks about it again, deletes first the screenshot of the "surprisingly" cheap sale in the forum and eventually asks admins to delete the thread.
Now, dear @ThugLife, what would you as the seller of the cars do about it? Leave him with the all the "free" cars?

Maybe you should proof such things with more screenshots and not tell us only your side of the story, because so far you appear to me very shadowy when it comes to what happens, what you really want and what you claim to be your intentions.

(Edit: I am getting way too involved and personally in this, which is not good. But I cant stand people claiming truth and honesty being important, but really just want to take advantage of others mistakes - and that is what is happening here imho)

 

Last edited: Dec 6, 2019

So an user buys 6000 eur products and he is proud he paid 100 because a mistake, explaining here to try the same trick on the chart, which is an obvious mistake to all people reading the topic? The transaction is wrong. If he wants there is the opportunity to pay the same amount other ones paid.
What are you suggesting exactly? I'm not doing it for money: we reverted the transaction and I'm sure we'll never see those money back. We did it because it is fair toward other customers who paid the full price.

 

Mealy-mouthed poor show from a company that says "All digital sales are final and no sale shall be invalidated".

It isn't even as if you'd have lost anything from accepting and honouring all of your own mistakes. Digital product copies have zero production costs.

 

It would be fair to everyone if you lowered the outrageous prices you charge for "sampling" other people's work, sticking some daft coloured name on it, and passing it off as your own, then bleating and whining when somebody accidentally gets it for a reasonable sum.

 

I mean, fair to everyone except the people who spent all that time and money developing, prototyping and building the hardware you copy and repackage. Fuck them, eh?

 

This also is no accurate example. He was never asked how many cars/plugins he wants nor how much he wants to pay for it. It was sale, he Took everything into his Basket to see what the total might be, the total was 100$ so he went for it. Thats the problem of our automated World. If you had a cashier sitting there, he would probably recognize something is wrong and make a Storno. And if Not it would also be Problem of the Shop, once the Person went out and you cant get to him anymore. For me it doesnt make much of a difference how much the discrapancy is. If I Sold the 30k car for 5$ it would be the Same Situation... im asking for only 5$, if im ok with it, why not. But as you want a more accurate example, there you go!

I am owner of a Gas Station and you come and fill the Tank of your car. My automated counter counts 1 gallon for every 2 gallons filled into your car... or if you want another bigger difference let's say 1 gallon for 10 gallons. You filled your car it says you have to pay for 5 gallons. You go in, pay for your 5 gallons and drive away. 5 hours later i recognize that my System is faulty. Would it be ok for you if I drive to your car, suck the Whole amount of gasoline back out of your Tank and leave you the amount of $ you paid on your car window because I dont know how to do else? Not to mention what @Exidus told us now about the money laundry case.
But of course I already know, this is again a Whole nother thing.
You can have your opinIon, im having Mine. But the point you make that he went here and told the People, I think speaks for him. Like @giancarlo said, if He had not Made it public, they prolly let him keep it. I dont know if thats just a claim but let's say he means it.. Then exidus only caused himself those problems to have other people over here take advantage of something that he thought was a special sale for a short aMount of time or people or else. He already had it, he had no Profit from that. And if you read his first post you would have realized that he didnt know the reason for it and just wanted to give us the Opportunity to Grab the discount ourselves. I cant see any Bad Intention in whatever he did and further when he realized it Wasnt intentional by aa, he asked a mod to take the thread down.

 

No. Gotta be clear here Exidus opened a thread to promote the sale. He thought it was normal, it's by talking to us that we realized there was a glitch. I told him that it was great that our voucher could be cumulated with sales, and it's when he answered that there was no voucher imply that we understood that something might have bugged. He did not tell anyone to do the same, and it was not the point of his thread. Then he asked for the thread to be removed, as he realized the situation.
There is no reason to escalate the situation into some bloody drama. If you can accept that your system can glitch, you should be able to accept that people too make mistake.

 

Like I Said above, I cant see his pride about having it for 100. He just wanted to let people know About a special offer he received so that others who might also get that offer also could take advantage of it. Im suggesting nothing, its your Company, your pricing, your system, you can do whatever you want to, I just told you how I and maybe others might react to this as a Potential customer. And like I Said you make the prices, you say plugins worth 6000€ but thats the worth you consider. You could also sell them for 3000 like smaller companies sell a comp for 1$ for example. You as the Company make and define the prices. Im aight with that. Im just Saying you are responsible for your Shop and the prices you are making. When you ask for 6000 at the checkout i can click buy or leave it but if you ask for 100 its the Same. I can either buy them or not. But as you are asking me. I would have Sold them to him for 100 bucks as he grabbed them and Made sure something like this wont Ever happen again, I would get to the ones responsible for my Shop and tried to find out how this could even happen and make them responsible for it. And i would try to make my customers happy and make others see that my Support Team is worth asking people to spend 6000$ for plugins and have others see that its a great Company they invest in, instead of taking customers to court for taking advantage of a cheap price while I have a sale going on where an error in YOUR store occured which he as a customer didnt know and was not responsible for

 

would you have shared the plugins?.....

 

Dear Friends, Dear @giancarlo,

I have followed the thread the whole day from my phone at work and I have several things to add.
First, I understand how to some of you I might seem as a greedy, confronting a-hole who wants to take advantage of someone's mistakes but I want to point to you the power dynamics here: I'm a regular Joe, talking to a Company... I want to apologize for the harsh rant tone but I feel like I have been treated unjustly... Now, I wont lie by saying that I wouldn't have tried to complete the purchase if I knew there was a glitch and lets be honest - there are only few of us here that can afford not to - partly because of the pretty steep prices there in general.. However that wasnt the case for me.

AA
You have made the rules by which we buy and sell things. You have made the clauses that keeps both seller and buyer as safe as possible. I have subjected myself to the same rules and process as any other buyer. Mistakes do happen and if AA had approached me differently and not directly cutoff the order with no explanation - than I would have been happy to settle for any proper BF compensation. They choose Instead inadequate attitude and implied police investigation threats. I was also hoping that AA would have reacted differently when they were publicly called out on their actions. They choose to avoid taking accountability for them and shift the responsibility on me.



with all that said...

@giancarlo
I would like to point you to several majorly untrue, unclear and contradicting remarks you made (I'll just go with the timeline of your posts here):

no, they are not because

_____

...so why are you typing these things in your BF promo emails?

______

not according to your own website:



________

What should I think about this one? There is a reason that it is called Order Confirmation, It means that the order is confirmed and you already agreed upon it. Contract is fulfilled and the deal is closed.
______


I am waiting for a final response from the Support team but the whole interaction led me to seek legal advice.



@Karlsplatz
Unfortunately, their Help desk rules forbid me from copying and screenshoting the conversations. If Giancarlo gives his public consent for this - I will gladly provide them here.
What they said was that according EU laws one cant sell products below their standard price and such sale can lead to a money laundry police investigation on my side.

 

Last edited: Dec 6, 2019