Only 12 notes. What are ya gonna do? Similar aspects in every form of music. We are all
synthesizers and tend to recreate and combine what we hear. Original genius occasionally opens new doors, but even then, it is still somewhat based on memory and experimentation. Do many 12 bar songs sound the same? Did early Rock n Roll steal from the Rhythm n Blues? Did the British invasion steal from Rock n Roll and Blues. Did Pachelbel steal from Bach? Does modern Country steal from Rock and Southern Rock?
Again, only 12 notes. Lyrics are rehashed poetry. The originals will always rise above, and others will always copy it. You can't sue everybody, but if you are low on cash, file a legal claim on the money makers. Mo' money, Mo' money...........

 

Yes, context is very important when trying to understand almost anything correctly. Let me address why the above passages above don't actually imply what you're deferring from them:

The first problem of exegesis (or the study of almost any ancient documents) is not all translations of the bible are made equal. The ESV version that you quoted takes some liberties with its translation that I (and many scholars) think are problematic.

If you look at the KJV (which is not perfect, but for the most part was translated directly from Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek into old English) you'll find this is what Hebrews 3:15 more accurately says "Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."

So transcribed more more accurately, this passage is admonishing the people of God to refrain from complaining, and being thankful for what they DO have (in context to what was going on historically) as God would ultimately be with them. The word "covetousness" means to desire else's possessions, wealth or material things. This has nothing to do with the righteous acquiring wealth.

Even MORE important than the correction above is the specific and historical context regarding that particular passage. The book of Hebrews, is essentially a letter written by the Apostle Paul to a group of 1st century followers of Christ that were living under intense persecution (which was getting even worse) in Jerusalem, and the author was concerned that many would leave abandon their faith in order to avoid the hardships associated with being a follower of Christ. This letter was to admonish a boost in moral and encouragement while providing spiritual principals to specifically help them navigate the hardships the 1st century church was going through at the time.


The same issues apply to the second passages you posted: 1 Corinthians 6:7, as if you read the whole chapter (let alone the whole book/letter) it would be clear, that passage is addressing disputes between fellow Christians/members of the body of Christ. Again this is a letter purported to be written by the Apostle Paul to the one of the 1st Century Churches in Corinth, that was having myriad of issues that were becoming problematic and needed to be addressed by 1st century church leaders. Here is an excerpt of the whole chapter in context, the meaning and intended audience is clear:

(This is the NIV translation which is much better than the ESV version if your looking for a better modern English translation).

Lawsuits Among Believers
1 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!

7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


So, basically Paul was chewing out the Church in Corinth for infighting rather than dealing with their issues internally, again this has nothing to do with suing of solving disputes with NON believers.

The point that I'm making, is people (including modern Christians) wrongly assume the tenants of Christianity based on a poor understanding of Biblical text. No hate, just sharing my thoughts.

 

Last edited: Aug 2, 2019

Rick Beato made a good video covering this and I totally agree with him, this is BS and makes no sense.

 

They learned quarter notes, played some on their keyboard (by ONE finger!) and think that they are Composers and Musicians and there are things that deserve a copyright.
Stupid story, sorry.

 

I think that the songs are sort of similar in a very loose way but other than that I think this was a travesty...Dark Horse is not Joyful Noise...When played back to back I can hear some familiarity to them, but they are similar in the same way that The stroke by billy squire = Go Getta by R Kelly (FIGHT ME)

 

I already have and on Friday morning you will be hearing from my lawyers. That song of your's in G min is what doomed you.

A friend of mine had money stolen from him by a professed "Christian" audio guy after this audio guy was ripped off by some Christian recording artist and after exclaiming to my friend that these so called and proclaimed Christian studios and artists were the sketchiest to do any kind of business with based on any kind of trust, that full money up front was a necessity to not get ripped off. Wasn't it Jesus who said, "Carpe Diem?". Yea, that's right!

 

Scholars haven't made a better translation since King James? Someone should tell the scholars today that they should stop translating since it was alreay done better in ancient Europe using an ancient dialect.

1st century Christians aside, if you want to interpret this as only meant for Christian on Christian disputes to make them appear better to outsiders and skip the main biblical theme of "turn the other cheek" fine, my interpretation is a little broader but my old English is weak.

Regarding this topic. Katy's song sounds nothing like fLame's. Not even the synth is played the same way, the court tried the case without examining the actual songs for some reason, no judge thought this would fly which is why the song went to the superbowl etc after initial suit was brought.

The artist seems to have taken issue with some religious interpretations also in this case. Have you read the lyrics? Its a love song loosely borrowing terminology from a dark magic element for poetic effect, love it or hate it who cares. Hopefully he sues Harry Potter also. Now you say the plaintiff has the right to make money, this is not how it's done in God's eyes.

 

Averaged sevenfold is much closer to stealing enter sandman with shephard of fire

Or lady gaga stealing dont turn around from ace of base with Alejandro

Im with rick beato on this one

 

If you look back every great singer , "pinch" a little from another artist , Lady Gaga from Madonna , Ace of Base , Timbaland take loops from from arab music , is NOT ok , but ... is not the "pinch " from arab music , that make Timbaland who he is , and is not the "pinch" who make Lady Gaga , Lady Gaga . In my opinion the christian fellow is only a poor looser , who with the front of christianity start and win this lawsuit . soon it will not be 12 notes , it will be only 6 ...

 

They are opprtunist guys,that's all.
First they are opportunist for making Christian rap (I didn't know this genre existed either) and second they are opportunist because they know they will make a big profit with this story.

 

This is bullshit, every time I heard the word beat I cringed

 

Unfortunately, I"m so bummed about this case...

 

k i'm just gonna say it of no one else will
cognitive dissonance on you guys side or a deep hatred for black music... the shit was definitely copied.
it's the exactly same thing slowed down.. the producer even had the cheek to copy the snap/clap reverb effect.

fuck outta here

 

Rick beato is known hater of black music.

dude made a video at his uncle-ass age about hi hats being too loud. what an embarrassment to manlyhood

PS for anyone who thinks different:

nobody gives a fuck about rock

TRAP

 

Christian rap lolz. And when someone -back in the day- would burst in tears from laughing at the existence of Christian death metal (that is me of course), now there is a ton of bands playing this. Antidemon, Lament, Pantokrator, Metanoia etc. So this is pretty much a part of the industry as everything else and it doesn't seem peculiar that some Christian artist of less than pop star fame sued Perry. What baffles me is he got away with it and with a winning court decision. His claim has no base, his main "hook" was not stolen musically, and unless he invented 4th and 8th notes, any sane judge/jury with a musical knowledge would have discarded the claim asap. If i was Perry i 'd appeal the case to oblivion 'till it reached the highest court possible in order to get justice.
And i mean i don't even like Kate Perry. But the rap dude is quite worse, trying to make a buck relying on the chance the jury's ignorant is all but Christian. This fucking hypocrisy irritates me more than any shitty pop song. And the irony is that -imho- he made that claim because he probably is as ignorant musically as the jury was lol. Any real musician would see that the two tracks have no melodic relevance.
And to sum it, this kind of rap/hiphop with a simple beat and a simplistic hook loop has been busting my balls for years. It is the worse kind of music people can make and to the core it's not music at all. Just some shit that can be made on your cellphone. Combine it with some excruciatingly nauseating lyrics like Lil Pump and you have the recipe for success!
As a matter of fact one can argue that a decent musician can do better music on a cellphone than these morons do in the studio. Where and to which current artist can you turn for inspiration at the end of the second decade of 2ks. Beats me man.
All the best

 

Pretty much exactly what Rick Beato (and @taskforce =) said. The jebus rapping is essentially just an endless (dull) verse, just rhythms. Even if you know nothing about music, you should be able to tell the diff between verse / chorus. And endless verse. I don't think it spells the end of the music industry, tho!

 

I didn't want to the be the one to bring it up either, but yeah I agree. I feel a great deal of peoples dismissiveness and contempt towards this case is because were talking about a relatively unknown "black" "christian" "Hiphop" artist, all of which are basically 'bad words' to a great deal of the music snobs/elitist demographic. In contrast Katy Perry is a white, super successful pop artist who's production team consists of Dr Luke and Max Martin, basically pop music royalty. Not to say everyone likes Katy Perry, but it seems people would rather arbitrarily assume that the black christian hiphop artist and his "beats" has no claim and are just looking for money.

It's as if people assume that famous producers writers and musicians never "borrow" inspiration from smaller less well known artist....LOL. It happens all the time and in most cases the bigger artist gets away with it. And it seems people are making baseless assumptions and missing the point, regarding THIS case (this is not the Blurred lines case and has a set of different material facts). If the song 'Dark Horse' took inspiration from 'Joyful noise' as much as to copy key elements from the production, the plaintiff should be compensated, just like anyone else would be paid a sample fee or a royalty commission. In my opinion, while the songs are OBVIOUSLY different, there are too many similar key elements and other coincidences to throw the case out so... yeah.

Yeah, Rick Beato seems to lace a lot of his videos with a very thick personal bias. He DOES seem to be an excellent musician and is fantastically knowledgeable regarding music production and music theory, but he also seems like a dickhead. Many times he appears to be presumptuous and callous about things that are outside of his musical preferences or cultural demographic. This is partially why I stopped watching his videos as good as some of the unbiased content was. He makes some good points early on in the video, but then looses me when he starts claiming the instrumental composition "is not the song" and ignorantly takes a hard stance on the case when its evident he didn't review the facts.

The argument is not that the song lyrics or primary vocal arrangements are similar, the primary argument is that the music production elements (which is approx 50% of the song when it comes to publishing) which appear to be copied and slightly modified, are key elements in what makes that song's composition recognizable. As many self proclaimed music producers are on this forum, I would assume some of you have been trained professionally or worked in professional environment, in which it is made clear that melody is king. It doesn't matter if is in the Beat/instrumental or if it is produced by the vocal sections of the song. Melody elements are what make a song identifiable and memorable, (in most cases).

Given the composition of both songs, the elements that are in question do bear a striking resemblance; and those elements are indeed key elements of both productions. So to be dismissive towards the case as if there is no merit is ridiculous. Its at least worthy of at least presenting to the court if one feels direct infringement had occurred, especially if Katy Perrys team were not willing to negotiate out of court.

 

Last edited: Jul 31, 2019

in this perry case, what are those key elements you keep telling about? I hope not those quarters C and B. Can you name something more substantial?

 

Last edited: Jul 31, 2019

I can't agree. This "stolen music" is primitive and banal. The possibility that two human beings "compose" it is very big. Nothing to steal, it's easier to make it from zero.
I don't mean to defend K.P. They deserve each other. The white monkey "stole" something from the black monkey. Was it worth to steal it? No. Nothing special. But now our monkies are fighting for the penny. This penny is so shining and bright!
Why are they so stupid? Why are they still monkies?