^
Yeah man i understand what you're saying ,i feel it & i agree (i will also listen to some of the music you have mentioned )
My apologies i'm not trying to offend anyone on this thread,just expressing my inner thoughts feelings
It must be the nicotine that is running in my blood,i haven't managed yet to quit smoking (regular cigarettes,i don't smoke anything else)
Happy Day to You !

 

Yet another misleading point. Spotify makes hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars every year while they pay shit to nothing to the actual creators of music!

 

But, but...



And you'd still have enough left over for a Model D.

 

Yes and people will listen to these songs 50 years from now. Rarely will anyone listen to the chart toppers of the last years.

-----

Pop Music has been commercialised big time.

Here is the thing: Enthusiasts, Musicians, Artists (and humans) have created spaces for themselves to enjoy, play and CELEBRATE Music in so many different ways. It just has gone outside of mainstream media. It has been evolving into something even more sub-cultural in recent time. That is why for some people it may appear that "those good old times are over". But, like some people mentioned too, there is a lot of creative, deeply uplifting, touching, beautiful music out there. Right now. People are being moved. Get on the train and enjoy.

And we are soon ought to wake up. //

 

Yes, yes.... But I already have one of those and an original Minimoog. You see how hard it is for me?

 

There's always room for another two grand synth. An ARP 2600 clone. There's always more, and a really good sex worker would be cheaper than a robot.

The Arp 2600 synth remake from Behringer is officially happening

https://www.musicradar.com/news/the-arp-2600-synth-remake-from-behringer-is-officially-happening

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2019

I hate to disappoint you, but I have one of those too

 

Ha, you may have lots, but feast your eyes on this.

 

Nah. That's not a clone. That's a scuzzy second edition. If you were really cool you'd have a Blue Marvin.

 

you really don't get it, at all.
don't tell me this is crap, because it isn't.
this piece is easily beyond the skill of the majority on this board. (for this specific genre)

its not about; if you like it or not, its not composed by a human, thats the whole point.
an no one could tell that just from listening to it.

this has nothing to do with pixar, its an artificial intelligence called Aiva, and the fun part, its from 2017.

the beauty with science is, whether you believe it or not, it is still true.

 

the key point in all of this is really its exponential nature, the rate at which it is improving.
we humans have a hard time to think exponentially.
ai is getting better at everything, at a faster rate every time.

 

A partly neglected bit of the discussion so far...
When we think we're finding beauty and emotion in something 'out there', we, the listeners, are actually putting a lot more of the beauty and emotion into it than we realise. If AI-generated music was all I could ever have, then even knowing that it came from an emotionless pile of junk, my mind would eventually endow it with the beauty I wanted it to have.

It's closely related to comments from @recycle about Blade Runner - and I think we skip past those comments too quickly.
Even if I assume that Blade Runner is too futuristic and unreachable, that I will always be able to tell the difference between humans and bio-machines, just how artificially smart does that cute plastic doll have to become before I really can fool myself into thinking I'm in love with it? and just not care that it ain't human. If I was stranded on a desert island 'Castaway' style, it would probably take me just a few days for my brain to delude itself. That's what brains are really good at doing.

So too with music. I have a personal bias towards listening with my eyes closed to something where I don't know or care about who the artiste is. If the music needs a biography or visuals, as crutches, then it's not my favourite kind of music. So I fully expect to find myself, one day, listening to something where, because I have no other clues, I just won't know whether what I'm listening to is human or machine generated. I hope I can judge that listening experience without prejudice.

---

Interesting that @saltwater's "humans have a hard time to think exponentially" references seem to have been ignored so far.
I said something similar when I said...
"AI really will be the like car that took 30 years to go from 0 to 60 and then 10 minutes to go from 60 to 10,000."
and today the speedo is currently on around 58
Is everyone just a bit jaded with "we've heard all these claims before"? It's easy to feel cynical with all the over-hyped, primitive, imposter AI that we've already seen. But that's not authentic AI. Tomorrow's authentic AI is NOT 'business as usual'

I might not like what's coming, I don't know yet, but I know it will be very, very, very, surprising, and will come at us faster and faster than we ever thought possible. Anyone who still thinks that this is just 'clever machines programmed by clever humans' is completely missing the point.

My most optimistic thought is that authentic composers, and authentic musicians, those who have historically never backed away from a challenge or an opportunity, will just grab AI by the balls and work with it to produce even better music than before.

What's the alternative, that creative composers and creative musicians just ignore it? That's not gonna happen!
I am still cynical of some of AI's possible roles in music, but I'm trying to not bury my head in the sand. Bring it on.

 

Last edited: Jun 17, 2019

It is fairly aweful to me, and yes it is important if I like it and am I judging it on the merit of how it affected me as I listened to it. The impression that it left me was as being one dimensionally flat and emotively vacuous. Just because it might be way past the finesse of the majority of the board doesn't mean that it is any good and only implies as per your statement that the vast majority are beginning their musical journey and/or are only so expressively proficient musically (please nobody take this personally). I don't have to like a piece of music or a particular band to know that it or they may be amazing as there is no accounting for taste (listening for me to the bands Journey and Slayer, for example, is an exercise that tests my nerves, but I know that they are both great bands), but this AI composition neither suited my palette, moved me in any way, shape or form and was just rudimentary at best.The point does not escape me that it is not a human composition, bravo for the folks working hard to bring us this thing as I would not have known if it was done by AI or a not so good composer. AI has come a long way and will only get better at everything as these constructs learn.

If the point of this AI is to replace a human in the creation of commercial musical composition then I am 110% against it. It is rather to me distasteful to want to even go there. Art when done well is a mirror of the human condition and of our beingness, begs questions that only our souls can answer without words and stirs the passion of our emotions. Biology is the foundation of art and machines are not living organisms, have no soul and cannot call upon their muse for inspiration.

Perhaps one day they will enjoy the fruit of their own labors, succeed in self propagation, at long last become self aware, but they will not be human and can never speak from the human perspective.

 

^
It is not a matter of "getting" it or not for me,but what i choose to like or not in my life

^
it is for me & it would sound even more uninteresting if not been performed my real players,funny that this had to be performed by real human players of the orchestra,using real physical instruments

^
nope sorry my friend ,i kindly disagree on this ^ ,at the end it is all a matter of taste & in what mood you are when you listen to music

^
So what's the point on all this ? is this the absolute truth ?

^
Science does not hold the absolute in any way my good friend ,it is something that Human beings create,
^
therefore it is imperfect (science) & imperfection is what makes us UNIQUE & BEAUTIFUL

as for the vid with the robot,i find it so uninteresting once again ,imagine the hours & money that those people spent to create that project
went into helping other REAL Human BEINGS in great need,like the poor,the sick or the homeless people


@saltwater thank you for sharing your thoughts & nice to see you back online ,have a great day,cheers !

edit: At the very end can someone please kindly explain to me what is the absolute purpose of A.I. ?

Is it to improve us Human Beings ? aren't we already created by the wisdom of Nature ?

Is it to replace us Human Beings ? do humans need to be replaced by machines ?

Is it to kill us Human Beings ? do more humans need to be killed on this planet & not have a natural death ?

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2019

this wasn't directly pointed at you, dear spy

i can understand the dislike of the fact that this is coming, because it is threatening our "job" / purpose / meaning?
and I'm painfully aware of the (frustrating) subjectivity of music in general.
i felt the same way, but this is not targeted at music people only, this is affecting literally everything humans do.

anyway,


the point is that this particular piece is already very, very, good, and something totally different. far, far, away from anything we had before.
(random number generated notes)

I'm using ai plugins since some time now, and i can literally see/hear how its getting better and better all the time.

i think you ask the wrong questions.
its not about purpose or intention, wanting or not, needing or not, dangerous or not....

we are all made of stars but this, is made by and out of us, it is, our next, (or part of) our next, us.
this is why it has imperfection, like us.
this is why it has creativity, like us.
etc etc

with the difference that its mind numbingly better and faster at everything and will surpass us in every way imaginable.
we are only better at one thing, and thats dying.
we will surpass that issue anyway sooner or later, with this, everything is possible.

the question is not why or why not.
the question is: what is the question? :D

why people are using it? many reasons,
actually, only one of those is enough to make it unstoppable, and that is, making shitloads of money.


that other fake robot video is good because it scares people and makes at least some slow down on this, which is probably a good idea.
but wont make a difference in the end really.


we are already living with ai, its everywhere. but it wont stay where it is now.
how do humans treat ai ? they just trust fully and blindly, most aren't even aware they are dealing with ai.

we cant even make a photo without ai anymore.....

still the best video on AI is this:

 

Hello good friend @saltwater

First of all let me start by saying that i promised myself not to post anymore on this thread as i really don't like "over posting" .....
....but since you quoted me & since you're a good member here that can engage in a heathy conversation i feel i should share some of my thoughts with you :

^
i know good friend ,it never felt like that to me

^
No dislikes from me here my friend ,
i have made enough money from my music career/commercial releases so far that i can live my life twice !
( & trust me life in Cali is expensive ! & no, music/art is not about money making )

^
I'm not 100% against A.I ,by all means if it helps Humans Beings in great need & is beneficial to them,lets say helping them with diseases,i'd say go for it !
i just don't understand the part that Human creativity has to be replaced or enhanced by A.I

^
my friend what is the point in this ? is machine made music what you want to hear ?
To me Music Above All IS A COMMUNION THING AMONGST HUMAN BEINGS ....i hope it is the same for You too

^
nice ! & interesting ! ,just please be careful you don't loose Your Own IMAGINATION & CREATIVITY

^
Why ?

^
Imho i feel us people should pay more attention & look more Inwards ...in our Inner World ,i see more & more people looking always on the outwards
...the outer world to find answers,be happy,be smart,get rich instead of being wealthy, instead of choosing their inner Wisdom & Intelligence
Thats is why people imho choose & are interested in A.I & similar things,
imho once again they are afraid to explore the "GAP" their inner "Emptiness " (which of course is Full of Creativity & Wisdom )

^
Paradox & being comfortable with the Unknown is the answer here

^
i agree

^
Thanks for sharing this & your thoughts ,me personally i try not to be "spoon fed" by any YT video
I feel in our human DNA is embedded once again True Wisdom & Intelligence ,we ALL just need to explore it more .

Don't we all know the difference about what is good/bad,wrong/right ? aren't we all born with this Intelligence in us ?

My last humble thoughts on A.I if you kindly want to listen good friend :

Do we all Human beings explored our Own Intelligence & "exhausted" it already that we need to rely on A.I to improve us/makes us smarter/better?

Have we Human beings have explored/"exhausted" the The Great Intelligence of Dolphins for example ? do we know it All ?
Do we truly know the Intelligence of plants all there is to know about Metamorphosis & Photosynthesis ?
Have we explored all the Vast Oceans,the Abyss to feel its Intelligence,that is if we are capable of it ?
Have we felt recently the Intelligence of our great Planet Earth also known as "GAIA" ?
Is it not Artificial Intelligence an oxymoron ? Does it not Intelligence have/has its roots in Nature ? Therefore organic/natural ?

about technology :



I will leave you my good friend with A personal story :
I lost my dog,He is not with me anymore on this planet
Charlie my beloved Golden Retriever was 14 years old when He left His last breath in my home surrounded by family ( some time ago)
Since day one, that i brought him home & for the 14 Sacred Years that He lived with me & my family,we only received Love from Him
That is True Intelligence (Love)
He was a "buddha dog" & i've "learned" so much from HIM
( i would choose my kids to have a true living Golden Retriever puppy in the future than any highly advanced futuristic Sony A.I aibo however intelligent it will 'look" like in the near or distant future )

WOW ! i can't believe i wrote so much ,thank you in advance or anyone else that will read this ,it will be my last post on this forum for a long time if not the LAST.
Soon i'll be flying from LAX To Athens thru Europe to a Greek island for some time to relax & enjoy Nature
all this time & studio hours here in Cali trust me,will make you want to change scenery from time to time
Also i've seen much negativity on the forum lately... (i'm very "allergic" to negativity")..fellow members dissing other members music work/projects (not talking about you Saltwater here)....including my own work.
This is not what the Audiosex Community is all about imho ,it should always be about Human Beings Helping each other with their music knowledge/uplifting their "spirit" & encouraging every member here with their "Ethos" to become better at what they do, not constantly blocking them every time they post a new track/song/composition/art .

Nice to see you back online @saltwater ,have fun on this forum,be safe,take care

Have a great day Love U All,spyfx

Edit : editing some typos..

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2019

good post, always loved your art, especially your music.
an explosion of creativity that tells me, you are wonderful.
have a great time here in Europe, enjoy!

 

This remark is very simplistic. Not necessarily, avant-garde composers are so inventive humans (blah, blah, blah) and make music that 97% (maybe more) of humanity prefers to ignore ... constantly.

 

Last edited: Sep 16, 2020

This is quite apropos to this conversation regarding we as a species and our capability to be unable to deal with the awesome responsibility in playing The Game of God.