Music can be a weapon

How political is sound?
Can music itself, without lyrics, without playbill, formulate a universal understandable statement against war?
Mexican artist Pedro Reyes believes it steadfast, however he doesn't choose the way of musical textures, but the instruments.
From 6.700 weapons, confiscated during the mexican-american drug war, he built metallophones, violins, flutes, partly self-sounding,
partly electrically amplified and automated. They are exhibited and played at Disarm, London Lisson Gallery.
Images by Peter Macdiarmid/Getty Images

London Lisson Gallery

 

and us army gives drumsticks to their soldiers, cos they hurt when you stick them into eye

cool idea, the first real reason for weapons to exsist

 

That's the best use of firearms ever 10/10

Can you get them to Syria to make music not war.

 

Or in this case (for once), weapons can be music!

Here's 2 examples of how they sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSAgHeOhESw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgMW2VuGItM

They sound amazingly like the instruments they're modeled after.

 

So fucking cool! I like especially the first jamming.

Yeah, your title could be headline.
I just translated and posted the original article.
Yesterday's, German ZEIT Online.

Thanks so much, indeed. I didn't know the vids.

It probably doesn't take long time, until we will see a library of those instruments on the market.

 

I think the concept is interesting but it's a little naive to think that this will ever actually change anything. People think that one day we're going to wake up and the world will be at peace. Just about as ludicrous to me as people that think they're going to end up in heaven someday. Human beings need to make up stories because they can't face the visceral reality of the everyday. War is an inevitable piece of the human condition. You couldn't put two people in a room without one trying to rule the other so what makes anyone think that somehow the world would operate differently? If people actually want to stand a chance of making a real difference then maybe they should get involved in the political process in their respective countries. It's wishful thinking to believe that an exhibit could ever really change the world because it never has and it never will. The creators of South Park and I are usually on the same page about a lot of things and they said it best in the commentary to Season 9, Episode 2 - Die Hippie, Die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF5Og_8DbvI

 

Might be true. Not yet, but maybe in the far future. You never know. I am still not (completely ) resigned.
But for now it sems to be at least principally possible to use weapons differently or not at all.

 

Don't get me wrong, I thought the idea was really cool. I just disagree with the artist on what it's actually going to accomplish. It is possible to use weapons differently or not at all but not enough to make any real kind of difference. Plus I'll wager that you already had these beliefs before you even heard of the exhibit so it wasn't really the artist that changed your viewpoint. People tend to have certain beliefs about things and they seek out in the world that which tends to validate them. An infinitely more useful purpose with a much more far-reaching effect would be to get involved in the political process. I really hope nobody gets upset or feels threatened by my commentary. I tend to search for truth no matter how inconvenient or uncomfortable it may be when it's found. However, I'm just giving my opinion and just as I have a right to mine, you have a right to yours. I just thought it was an interesting topic to debate. All the best.

 

Yes, surely. Politicians have more influence...maybe already more than necessary....

However, everybody has it's own way. There is the way of an artist and of a politician, a journalist, a lawyer, a Physician, whatever...
So many ways, more or less far-reaching, dependent one from another. We all make it together or not at all.
What do i know?

And yes, the artist didn't change anything for me......maybe a little bit my point of view concerning music.
But i understood his intention and appreciate it, as well as the creativity behind.
I mean, they make sound with this kind of art - ant not the worst one.

Even if it is not possible to go through the world without to harm one another -
and this is definitely the case momentary, maybe forever -
i think it must be possible not to shoot against each other.
Is there still any hope for me?

There are a few cultures in the world, who can live like that for many hundreds of years.
In many european countries we have now 65 years of freedom - for the first time in history, that's why we are still very sceptical.
But at the same time these 65 years are somehow a success, aren't they?

Even a forum like this is political in a way.
"Music is spiritual" (Van Morrison)
"Spirituality has a political dimension" (Ralph Metzner)

 

You bring up some valid points my friend. I particularly like the idea that we each play a role in our own way. I think part of the problem is that we don't always know each others capabilities or intentions and we definitely don't understand each other on a cultural level. If we lived in a world that was open and honest then it might be more plausible in my view. Then again if that were the case we probably wouldn't be killing each other in the first place. However, what happens when one country could possibly threaten the stability of the entire world and words fail as they often do? What happens when people think they will go to heaven for killing others? What happens when people fear that others may hurt their country, their family or their way of life? Sometimes it's not even a real threat but rather a perceived one and that's often enough. What about civil wars? Is there no limit to what citizens should tolerate before they react with brute force? There are also too many things in our world to not see eye to eye on. Things such as culture, race, religion, sex, morality, ethics, government and the list goes on and on. What happens when these viewpoints are diametrically opposed and conflict is inevitable? These are some of the kinds of questions I like to think about. Another major contributing factor to war is the massive unchecked growth of our species. Unfortunately, I foresee even greater conflicts coming as populations explode and resources are stretched to their limits. We can already see this effect in many countries around the world. I'd also like to point out that though many European countries may have had peace for the last 65 years there has also simultaneously been an alarming trend towards censorship and systems of surveillance. In countries where this kind of unchecked governmental control exists it is only a matter of time until it is projected outwards. Napoleon Hill once said: "War grows out of the desire of the individual to gain advantage at the expense of his fellow man." That to me is just an intrinsic part of the human condition and I don't believe it can ever be overcome. Maybe by some people but not by all. Remember just because you're an intellectual that wants to live in a world without war that doesn't mean the man next to you feels the same. I like to remember that everything in the world works on the principle of tension and release. From your heart pumping blood through the various systems in your body to the need for tension and resolution in the music you listen to. Water flowing through pipes caused be differences in pressure, electrons flowing in a circuit caused by voltage or electrical pressure. In order for there to be release there has to be tension as one cannot exist without the other. It is woven into the fabric of our world and everything in it. Here's an interesting article in Discovery Magazine I think you would really enjoy reading: Is War Inevitable?

"There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others."
-Niccolo Machiavelli

"If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known, that we are at all times ready for War."
-George Washington

 

At the end of the article I posted there was an opposing viewpoint but I noticed that the link wasn't functioning. To be fair so that people can make up their own minds I found a link that works and I offer it here: No, War is Not Inevitable The response is a little short but I found another site where he goes into more detail: Why War Isn't Inevitable: A Scientist Studies the Secret to Peaceful Societies I personally don't agree with the author that war is a cultural invention and I can cite a million different pieces of evidence that this is simply not true. One of the central ideas is that because substantial portions of the population perpetuate the idea that war is inevitable that this makes it so. He makes particular mention of scientists and I think that couldn't be further from the truth. It makes the average scientist seem like someone that is driven by personal whims instead of actual evidence. In fact I would challenge anyone to come up with another institution that reevaluates its beliefs more than science does. It brings to mind a great quote by Carl Sagan: "There are many hypotheses in science that are wrong. That's perfectly alright; it's the aperture to finding out what's right. Science is a self-correcting process. To be accepted, new ideas must survive the most rigorous standards of evidence and scrutiny. The suppression of uncomfortable ideas may be common in religion or in politics, but it is not the path to knowledge and there is no place for it in the endeavor of science." The author of the article seems to be approaching the subject with an idealism where he posits that we may one day wake up in a "permanent paradise." That has about as much chance of happening as us waking up in heaven. To me it is indicative that humans need hope to persevere more than it is an accurate representation of reality. I'd also like to point out that the first article (Is War Inevitable?) was written by an actual scientist while the second one (No, War Is Not Inevitable) by a science journalist. To me that is not even remotely the same thing. Anyway you guys can make up your own mind.

 

someone pleaase make a sample library of this shiit :D

 

+1
This is the epitome of Industrial.

 

Catalyst, thanks brother, for taking the time and your effort. Interesting aspects, really. It's an important topic for all of us. I didn't expect a discussion like this, to be honest. I am surprised.

What gives me some hope is the fact, that i am a fucking german.
My own country has brought a lot of brutal violence to other people.

I myself was born at the beginning of the 60s. The current generation looks head-shaking at this shit of the past generation.
It is hard for us to realize, that 70 years ago our ancestors were hypnotized by a nutter.
The reason for that can be seen in in the nordic mythology, which is a part of our collective unconscious.
Though Hitler fucked up the original germanic mythology beyond all recognition, he was for some reason the light bringer
for many people that time. But this theme goes beyond the scope of this forum.

I want to say, that now, two generations later, a psychotic madman like him wouldn't have any chance to mobilize the masses.
Our consciousness has changed. Today Germans smoke statistically more weed than our Dutch neighbors…..says a lot, doesn't it?

Consciousness evolution doesn't stand still and is able to change.

Dr. Stanislav Grof talks in his readable popular book "Psychology of the future, lessons of modern consciousness research" much about violence and war.
A few passages from Stan's book:

"Diplomatic negotiations, administrative and legal measures, economic and social sanctions, military interventions, and other similar efforts have had very little success; as a matter of fact, they have often produced more problems than they solved. It is becoming increasingly clear why they had to fail. The strategies used to alleviate this crisis are rooted in the same ideology that created it in the first place. In the last analysis, the current global crisis is basically a psychospiritual crisis; it reflects the level of consciousness evolution of the human species. It is, therefore, hard to imagine that it could be resolved without a radical inner transformation of humanity on a large scale and its rise to a higher level of emotional maturity and spiritual awareness. The task of imbuing humanity with an entirely different set of values and goals might appear too unrealistic and utopian to offer any real hope.

Considering the paramount role of violence and greed in human history, the possibility of transforming modern humanity into a species of individuals capable of peaceful coexistence with their fellow men and women regardless of race, color, and religious or political conviction, let alone with other species, certaunly does does not seem very plausible. We are facing the necessity to instill humanity with profound ethical values, sensitivity to the need of others, acceptance of voluntary simplicity, and a sharp awareness of ecological imperatives. At first glance, suich a task appears too fantastic even for a science-fiction movie.

However, although serious and critical, the situation might not be as hopeless as it appears. After more than forty years of intensive study of holotropic states of consciousness, i have come to the conclusion that the theoretical concepts and practical approaches developed by transpersonal psychology, a discipline that is trying to integrate spirituality with the new paradigm emerging in Western science, could help alleviate the crisis we are all facing. These observations suggest that radical psychospiritual transformation of humanity is not only possible, but is already underway. The question is only whether it can be sufficiently fast and extensive to reverse the current self-destructive trend of modern humanity."

The ability to make war will always be part of human nature. But there is a chance, to transform those dark archetypal structures and not to act them out.

 

Catalyst, Some of your sayings are making me think a lot.
Not everybody wants to get involved in the political process.
Many of us don't have the time because of their job and familiar commitments..
We have to set priorities in life, we can't do everything.
Many things depends on the actual life situation.
Sounds like an excuse, but it's reality.
I thought about it some time ago, but decided for myself to go another way.
Another thing:
I have seen people from my surrounding, who went into politics.
This business changed their character a lot, not to their (and our) advantage.
You really have to use your ellbows in this job.....

I myself gave it mostly up to change the world or other people.
I realized, that i have enough to do to change myself.
To face our own shadow side and to transform it is a lifelong task.

I appreciate your comments. Thanks again.

News from today: North-Korea declared belligerency......

 

Alraun brother it was no trouble. I figured that if this topic isn't worth an extended commentary then what is? Sorry I'm responding a little late but I seem to have caught the cold from hell. I've been running a fever for the past few days and it left me mostly incapacitated. Though it is true that Germans have brought their share of violence to the world they also gave us Kraftwerk, Trance and a million other wonderful things that the world would really miss out on if not for this glorious country. I really admire all the amazing talent that comes out of this place. Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium and the UK have brought us so many artists that have revolutionized music that honestly it's kind of intimidating. I really hope that one day I will get a chance to visit. Every country has had its share of bloodshed and shady history. Hitler was a good orator and he exploited the events following World War I, particularly after the Treaty of Versailles that brought many restrictions to Germany and its people. Besides the return of lands there were imposed limitations on the army and Germany was also forced to pay reparations which left the economy on the verge of collapse. People were desperate for a change and here came a man that delivered on it. The cost however was all too high in the end. It brings to mind a concept you may know called the banality of evil. This is the idea that it is not a prerequisite for someone to be evil to commit evil acts. Most often it is actually ordinary people that do evil things. That is why I believe that we should never hold any man as an idol no matter what they may deliver. I think instead of putting faith in gods and men we should put it where it will help us most…in ourselves.

One thing in particular that is really disconcerting to me is that one might think that right before this period in time that the country was very restricted and controlled. However, in reality Germany had a very open and democratic society before Hitler came to power. I believe they even had gay rights. This reminds me that even with progress we are only a stones throw away from our own destructive natures. People think that democracy is some sort of destination but really it is a cycle that must be infinitely repeated less we grow complacent and apathetic and lose all that we have fought so hard for. People have literally died so that we could live in a better world. That is why I get annoyed when people complain about their government yet are not involved in the political process. It is every citizens responsibility to keep their government in check. I understand that not everyone may have a lot of free time but you decide your own level of involvement and we all help the cause in one way or another. Maybe if you're not protesting some injustice you can write a letter to your elected officials about something important. Maybe if you don't want to do that you can find an online petition that you think should be signed. Maybe you could research some bills that are being introduced that you feel people need to be educated about. Maybe your contribution could be this conversation right here, right now or the sharing of your ideas and experience with the world. Believe me I would never suggest someone get involved in actual politics because I feel that is one of the major problems in the first place.

You're absolutely spot on about the progress of morality. I've always said that the one constant in life is change. Things that would be seen as commonplace a few decades ago are unthinkable now. Not that long ago women were denied the right to vote, black people were treated like animals and we were throwing Jews into ovens and gas chambers. Believe it or not but even such a positive figure as Gandhi was a racist. Since then the march of progress has changed our viewpoints in many areas of human experience. It gives me hope that so much can be achieved in so little time. Interesting that you bring up Dr. Stanislov Grof as I have read a lot of his work. I do think that we can find other outlets for our destructive tendencies and I personally use music as a cathartic tool. One thing about music is that it is universal and love of music is something that all societies have in common. It traverses all of the boundaries that would separate us. However, maybe it is my cynical nature but I don't have much hope for humanity. I see a microcosm of the problems that nations face in dealing with people everyday. I have seen the worst of humanity and sometimes I wonder if we even deserve a chance. If we are to evolve and take up the challenge of making war a thing of the past I don't believe that this can be achieved without the removal of religion from the equation and people are too addicted to their stories to make the kind of drastic alterations necessary for such an endeavor. Religion does not possess the self-correcting methods of science which in my opinion are a vital prerequisite for this kind of change. Faith is the cessation of logic and reason and that is downright dangerous in the wrong hands. It is the escape from the world that we don't want to face not the coming to terms with it. We have to be willing to throw away the beliefs that aren't working for us like yesterdays newspaper so that we can adapt to a changing landscape. For many it is too scary to lose their identity in such a way. They would rather stick to old ways that might not be working but at least they are familiar. We have to be willing to rearrange, reinvent and redefine ourselves on a daily basis if we are to have any hope achieving our end goal. I don't believe I will see this day but I still hope that one day I will be proven wrong. Thanks for taking time out of your day to respond. It's been a very interesting and thought provoking conversation. All the best.

 

"Alraun brother it was no trouble. I figured that if this topic isn't worth an extended commentary then what is?"
Yes, that's right.

"Sorry I'm responding a little late but I seem to have caught the cold from hell. I've been running a fever for the past few days and it left me mostly incapacitated."
I hope, you are healthy again now!

"Though it is true that Germans have brought their share of violence to the world they also gave us Kraftwerk, Trance and a million other wonderful things that the world would really miss out on if not for this glorious country. I really admire all the amazing talent that comes out of this place."
Yes, that's true. Especially in the Synthesizer music genre. Berlin old school, Klaus Schulze, Tangerine Dream, Mathias Grassow and so many others influenced the electronic genre worldwide.

I really hope that one day I will get a chance to visit."
Tell me, if this is the case one day.

"Every country has had its share of bloodshed and shady history. Hitler was a good orator and he exploited the events following World War I, particularly after the Treaty of Versailles that brought many restrictions to Germany and its people. Besides the return of lands there were imposed limitations on the army and Germany was also forced to pay reparations which left the economy on the verge of collapse. People were desperate for a change and here came a man that delivered on it."
You have a good knowledge and it's all true. Additionally he integrated some aspects of the nordic mythology, as i said before, but i realize that it's difficult for me to explain what is meant by that.
May i ask you, from which country you are? You can answer via PM, if you want.

"That is why I believe that we should never hold any man as an idol no matter what they may deliver. I think instead of putting faith in gods and men we should put it where it will help us most…in ourselves."
Exactly. The symbolic statement "If you meet Buddha on your way, kill him" points into this direction.

"This reminds me that even with progress we are only a stones throw away from our own destructive natures."
Yes. Even more than that. It is not only a stones away, it is existing in each moment as a inseparable part of our human psyche.
It's necessary to have this "reptile part". If someone wants to threaten me to death, i would hit him the guitar made of weapons on the head, if would have the chance to do this.

"That is why I get annoyed when people complain about their government yet are not involved in the political process. It is every citizens responsibility to keep their government in check."
I agree, but this is a problem. The political caste doesn't want to let themselves controlled by us. They often want to stay among themselves and loose the contact to the people.
And if you want to get more directly involved into the political process, you have to adapt yourself to a certain degree, otherwise there will be hardly a chance of forthcome. In any case: making a little cross on a paper every few years is definitely not enough anymore.

"Maybe your contribution could be this conversation right here, right now or the sharing of your ideas and experience with the world. "
Thanks that you say that. Yes, one of a few things. I've done some things already in life. Maybe i tell you on occasion.
But this is primarily an audio forum....and i realized already that it is sometimes a tightrope walk, what to say and what not to say.
I said that already a few hours ago in AudioSEX saxophones comment section: misunderstandings are preprogrammed in the multicultural internet communication in a foreign language. It's easy on the one hand, more difficult on the other hand, to talk like that. No mimics, gestures can be seen, no voice etc.
You have to carefully weigh each word, because things rapidly become a different meaning, dependent on what you say and dependent on the world view of other members. Much space for projections.
One (maybe not even wrong) word, meant differently as it will be understood, and the shit is steaming, as we say in my country. This is sometimes somehow difficult for me, because i am used to have a different setting in dealing with people, and it takes time. Often i sit in front of my computer asking myself: should i say this or better not?
This is maybe a typical german problem. It often takes (too) long time, before we come out of the bush. Maybe this was one of our major problems at the time
of Hitler, because many people were against him. Today's heroes, Siblings Scholl, were not the only ones. We could have had stopped him, but we didn't.
That's past and lots of things have changed since them, but not everything is internally healed.

Today we are confronted with the old stuff again, because our chancellor is personated with a hitler beard in some european countries.
I understand the reason why. She is not that unguilty, but in fact nothing is more far away from the real truth..... As i said, wounds are not healed yet-on both sides.
People out there in the world: At least 70% of the germans don't vote for her. But we can't guarantee, that it will be enough to set her down. That's democracy.
Now i am very political!
I have to make a break now. I will take a stand on the last (and important) section of your post tomorrow.
Catalyst, thanks for this content-full discussion.

Till later....

 

I realize, i am internally a little far away from this topic, because of the time in between.
I just want to pick out the sentences above for now.

Stan Grof was my most important teacher over a long period of time. I know him personally, because i was educated by him. You said, you have read some of Stan's work. But do you know about his practical method called "Holotropic Breathwork"? It induces nonordinary states of consciousness with the use of a special breathing technique, evocative music, body work, art and group sharing. This is one of the most powerful methods i've learned to know. I mention it, because it's a cathartic method and music
plays an important role! We use music from all cultures. Could be interesting for you one day..... It definitely reduces destructive tendencies in many ways.

Religion is a problem, yes. Less religion and more spirituality would be good for the world. I am not a religious man, but a man with lots of spiritual experiences, induced by the Breathwork and other methods, with and without the use of sacred drugs (f.e. Ayahuasca). My own experiences and those from many people i worked with during the last two decades leads me to believe, the mankind can manage it. What our sanity can inspect, what we know, is just a little clip of the evolution....

There are still many things to discover within ourselves. Our capabilities are greater than we currently suppose - our mind is as vast as the universe. I don't believe that - i know it.

Bye for now, my friend. See you in another topic - and maybe in reality one day. Who knows? Everything is possible.

 

all experiences, however motivated, either good or bad, lend to the creative process.


to struggle is to survive, and by surviving we are singing the praise of creation by not letting it go without a fight

 

Yes, that's true. Especially in the Synthesizer music genre. Berlin old school, Klaus Schulze, Tangerine Dream, Mathias Grassow and so many others influenced the electronic genre worldwide.
It's absolutely uncanny the talent coming out of Germany and it's almost unfair to the rest of the world.

Tell me, if this is the case one day.
I certainly will.

You have a good knowledge and it's all true. Additionally he integrated some aspects of the nordic mythology, as i said before, but i realize that it's difficult for me to explain what is meant by that.
May i ask you, from which country you are? You can answer via PM, if you want.
Thanks Alraun, history is actually my worst subject partly because when I was younger I found it somewhat useless being that we never learn from it anyway. It interests me but certainly not as much as music or science. Also I actually completely understand what you meant by this statement as the whole world is ruled by myths and sometimes we're not even consciously aware of that fact.

Exactly. The symbolic statement "If you meet Buddha on your way, kill him" points into this direction.
Great minds think alike.

Yes. Even more than that. It is not only a stones away, it is existing in each moment as a inseparable part of our human psyche. It's necessary to have this "reptile part". If someone wants to threaten me to death, i would hit him the guitar made of weapons on the head, if would have the chance to do this.
The way I look at it these forces (particularly fear) should be a guide not a jail but sometimes it's hard when you feel things so deeply particularly those with higher intelligence as there is much evidence to suggest that this greatly increases emotional depth and dynamics.

I agree, but this is a problem. The political caste doesn't want to let themselves controlled by us. They often want to stay among themselves and loose the contact to the people. And if you want to get more directly involved into the political process, you have to adapt yourself to a certain degree, otherwise there will be hardly a chance of forthcome. In any case: making a little cross on a paper every few years is definitely not enough anymore.
Absolutely but we have to remember that their power comes from our work, obedience and consent. You're absolutely correct about the need for adaptation and this is one of the things I hate about politics which is basically just one big circle jerk.

Thanks that you say that. Yes, one of a few things. I've done some things already in life. Maybe i tell you on occasion.
But this is primarily an audio forum....and i realized already that it is sometimes a tightrope walk, what to say and what not to say. I said that already a few hours ago in AudioSEX saxophones comment section: misunderstandings are preprogrammed in the multicultural internet communication in a foreign language. It's easy on the one hand, more difficult on the other hand, to talk like that. No mimics, gestures can be seen, no voice etc. You have to carefully weigh each word, because things rapidly become a different meaning, dependent on what you say and dependent on the world view of other members. Much space for projections. One (maybe not even wrong) word, meant differently as it will be understood, and the shit is steaming, as we say in my country. This is sometimes somehow difficult for me, because i am used to have a different setting in dealing with people, and it takes time. Often i sit in front of my computer asking myself: should i say this or better not? This is maybe a typical german problem. It often takes (too) long time, before we come out of the bush. Maybe this was one of our major problems at the time of Hitler, because many people were against him. Today's heroes, Siblings Scholl, were not the only ones. We could have had stopped him, but we didn't. That's past and lots of things have changed since them, but not everything is internally healed. Today we are confronted with the old stuff again, because our chancellor is personated with a hitler beard in some european countries. I understand the reason why. She is not that unguilty, but in fact nothing is more far away from the real truth..... As i said, wounds are not healed yet-on both sides. People out there in the world: At least 70% of the germans don't vote for her. But we can't guarantee, that it will be enough to set her down. That's democracy. Now i am very political!
I have to make a break now. I will take a stand on the last (and important) section of your post tomorrow. Catalyst, thanks for this content-full discussion.
Till later....
Though this is an audio forum I have actually been involved in initiatives to expand the content on here. You're right that misunderstandings abound and I always remind people that Facebook, forums and text messages are all forms of cold communication as their is no body language, intonation, etc and I'm sure when your native language is different that adds a whole other level of problems. I have actually been working hard to alleviate some of the confrontations that come up from time to time and hopefully with a little more time things will settle down. My goal is to reinvent the forums so we can leave all that alpha male bullshit behind as this is what plagues even sites such as KVR. I actually made a guide when I was still a member called Cataly5t's Guidelines For A Better Community Experience that if everyone read and followed would solve just about every problem. Honesty second guessing yourself is not unique to Germans and I also sit and contemplate whether what I say is necessary and analyze whether it can bring up some issues. I can understand your countries pain in recovering from the events of World War II but so long as the world learned a lesson and has taken steps to ensure that this never happens again all is forgiven. Plenty of other countries have historically done horrible things including my own so nobody is above it. Concerning the new chancellor I think that people need to be vigilant in obtaining all the facts because it is irresponsible to call someone Hitler just because they have acted in a way that is undesirable or don't act in the way that you think they should. Also I am amazed how low the approval rating of certain people in government is (as well as the approval rating for certain legislation) yet nothing changes. It makes me question how exactly that is a representative democracy if they don't actually represent the people.

Stan Grof was my most important teacher over a long period of time. I know him personally, because i was educated by him. You said, you have read some of Stan's work. But do you know about his practical method called "Holotropic Breathwork"? It induces nonordinary states of consciousness with the use of a special breathing technique, evocative music, body work, art and group sharing. This is one of the most powerful methods i've learned to know. I mention it, because it's a cathartic method and music plays an important role! We use music from all cultures. Could be interesting for you one day..... It definitely reduces destructive tendencies in many ways. Religion is a problem, yes. Less religion and more spirituality would be good for the world. I am not a religious man, but a man with lots of spiritual experiences, induced by the Breathwork and other methods, with and without the use of sacred drugs (f.e. Ayahuasca). My own experiences and those from many people i worked with during the last two decades leads me to believe, the mankind can manage it. What our sanity can inspect, what we know, is just a little clip of the evolution.... There are still many things to discover within ourselves. Our capabilities are greater than we currently suppose - our mind is as vast as the universe. I don't believe that - i know it. Bye for now, my friend. See you in another topic - and maybe in reality one day. Who knows? Everything is possible.
Alraun I find it absolutely amazing that you were taught by Dr. Stanislov Grof. Though I have heard of Holotropic Breathwork and been involved in meditation and experimentation with different techniques I have not explored this method deeply. I did have an active meditation technique that I used to do daily that included the use of breathing, exercise, music and meditation. I also sometimes would do this under the influence of psychedelics but Ayahuasca isn't that easy to come by where I live so I had to use more traditional fare. Sometimes it's difficult for me because in my life it wasn't the states such as happiness and love that were the most influential or there for me in my times of need but rather it was a lot of the emotions that people would perceive as negative that gave me the power to press on. Also some of the music I am into is of an aggressive nature so it becomes difficult to let that side of me go. I don't know if you can understand where I'm coming from because maybe you can't relate to what I'm saying but that's the best way I can explain it. Intellectually and personally I know that the individual can change and so therefore we can deduce that the world can change but I still have my doubts. Let me tell you that I would be ecstatic to see this in my lifetime. I will say that I think human beings can be resilient, inspiring and we possess practically unlimited potential. However I liken it to this: In every cubic inch of space there is practically limitless energy that could power life for a long time to come, yet how come we aren't harnessing it? The answer is that we have not found a way to make sensible use of it and have yet to evolve to the point where we can do so. Who knows if we ever will as right now we can't even accomplish much simpler tasks. Just because the possibilities are there doesn't mean the reality ever will be. What people can do and what people will do are two very different things and these days though some people are evolving many more are devolving. Alraun this conversation was quite intriguing and I'd just like to say thank you for engaging me. Since the topic of the discussion was war and our own volatile natures I offer you this lovely song complete with lyrics that I'm sure you will enjoy. I hope that one day we will meet face to face. Anything is possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il5DqxGMYxk
I'd pull my weight if it made any difference
He gave his life for the nine million others
But on his grave's written here lies Joseph
His country's gun and innocent soldier

Fight your way out of this one
Fight your way out of this one
Fight your way out of this one
Fight your way out of this one

He grew a blood red vision for all their good intentions
He made an easy million from a foreign investment
He danced with the devils in beautiful buildings
Affirmative action for a useful reunion

He'd change his name if it made any difference
Now he's waiting in line for the lasting confession
But on his grave's written here lies our son Joseph
His country's gun and innocent soldier

Well fight your way out of this one
Fight your way out of this one
Fight your way out of this one
Fight your way out of this one
Fight your way out of this one
Fight your way out of this one
Fight your way out of this one
Fight your way out of this one