Stereo to 3 Bus (Left/Center/Right)

Discussion in 'Working with Sound' started by The Mazeman, Nov 22, 2018.

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  1. The Mazeman

    The Mazeman Kapellmeister

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    I want to convert a stereo mix into a 3 bus where each buss will be a mono bus. One will have the audio unique to left channel (Left) one will have audio common to both channel (Center) and another will have audio unique to right channel (Right). I want to do this just by using routing and polarity flipping. Anyone can help me with this ?



    P.S.- This is not for utility but for testing i.e. no one will use this in real life scenarios.
     
    The Mazeman, Nov 22, 2018
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  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

     
  3. Brian49

    Brian49 Newbie

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    Hi I use a mono sub buss and then the rear bus and then a master bus then everything goes true a mix bus with some overall EQ and comp
    so I have control over the sub which is everything below 150=200 and the other buss have nothing lower than 150 ish and a little off the top about 20 k and the rear bus has more mids and not too much on the top or bottom 300-8k and that's there just to push the mix from time to time it's my interpretation of Andrew Scheps template
     
    Brian49, Nov 22, 2018
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  4. Grok

    Grok Producer

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    This is M-S (Mid-Side) processing.
    Take the Mid, take the Side, input them in 3 mono channels/busses (double the Side and then mute the R on one and the L on the other, input them muted to a mono channel ; transfer the Mid to a mono channel).
    Check your DAW Pan and Routing options, or use an M-S plugin.

    In "real life", this could be used to make a L-C-R mix from a stereo mix.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
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    Grok, Nov 22, 2018
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  5. The Mazeman

    The Mazeman Kapellmeister

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    That's not what I was asking for !
     
    The Mazeman, Nov 22, 2018
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  6. The Mazeman

    The Mazeman Kapellmeister

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    But first you have to encode the stereo signal into a M/S signal. I was asking how to do it from scratch.
     
    The Mazeman, Nov 22, 2018
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  7. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    No prob at all with ISOL8.
    https://www.tb-software.com/TBProAudio/ISOL8.html

    You'll need the track three times. In the first two insert two ISOL8 instances, in the third one.

    First track, switch first ISOL8 to 'S' (= Side), switch second ISOL8 to 'L'.
    Second track, switch first ISOL8 to 'S', switch second ISOL8 to 'R'.
    Third track, switch ISOL8 to 'M' (= Mid).
    Done.

    Two advantages, first, you can separate (mute and solo) five different, adjustable freq ranges, if you want to, second, it's free.

    EDIT: see post #8, please.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
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    No Avenger, Nov 22, 2018
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  8. davea

    davea Platinum Record

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    Also check SigMod from Nugen Audio.

    cheers
     
    davea, Nov 22, 2018
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  9. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    Addendum:

    Firstly, there's an additional pull-down menu in ISOL8, where you can switch from 'Stereo' to 'Mid' or 'Side', so you don't need two instances. Sorry, my fault :bow: (haven't used it for some time).

    Secondly, flipping the phase will not solve any phase issues, only alter it (from too mono to too cancelled out and vice versa, ofc). You'll need a tool to turn the phase like PhaseBug (coming in stereo and mono).
    http://www.pcjv.de/vst-plugins/betabugs-plugins/

    And now guess what, it's free, too.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
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    No Avenger, Nov 22, 2018
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  10. The Mazeman

    The Mazeman Kapellmeister

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    Can you explain it a bit more why I need a plugin (like ISOL8) to do this job instead of using routing and a phase tool which flips the phase 180 degrees ?
     
    The Mazeman, Nov 22, 2018
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  11. Grok

    Grok Producer

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    Yes, there could be no need to flip the phase in this, nowhere.

    As I told you, check your DAW Pan options & modes ; I don't know the DAW you use ; with Samplitude Pro X3 this can be done without a plugin.

    Generally, "max extended stereo" would mean Side, and "Mono" would be L+R = Mid.

    Then, you can multiply 3 times the stereo mix track by copying, and apply these Pan settings to each track, muting L on one Side, and muting R on the other Side, the third track would be Mono = Mid, all these with the Pan Options.

    Then you can freeze/render each track in a mono file (see your DAW options for freeze/rendering in mono files).

    Then you'll have 3 mono tracks, L, C, R, that you can route accordingly.

    If you absolutely want to experiment with flipping the phase somewhere, I could see multiply the stereo mix by 2, then rendering one stereo on a mono file ( = Mid), then multiply this Mid by 2, then invert phase in one of the two Mid, then render the stereo + MidInvertedPhase >>> = Side... Then...

    Enjoy
     
    Grok, Nov 22, 2018
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  12. El digital

    El digital Ultrasonic

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    Actually, LCR is really simple. No polarity flip/Mid-Side technique to get there.

    Use 3x stereo send (aux, group, bus, whatever depends on your DAW) to 3x mono return.
    Send 1 is panned 100% to the left
    Send 2 is dead center (stereo mix)
    Send 3 is panned 100% to the right

    Apply the same panning on your 3 mono return if you want to recreate your stereo mix and that's it. Note that you may have to boost the L-R and/or lower the C by +-3db or +-6db to compensate the default panning configuration of your DAW.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
    El digital, Nov 22, 2018
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  13. The Mazeman

    The Mazeman Kapellmeister

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    I am using Studio One 4 as my DAW but I want to be able to recreate this in any DAW.
    I am talking about phase inversion in order to cancel what's common to both channels (L-R).
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
    The Mazeman, Nov 22, 2018
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  14. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    @The Mazeman, @Grok and @El digital
    Err, I think there are some misunderstandings here (if I got you all correctly). 'SL' (Sidesignal only left) is not 'L' (left side of a stereo file). Means, if you have a stereo signal and delete, for instance, the right half (lower waveform, if two waveforms are shown for one stereo signal), this signal is not SL, because it still has (half of) the mid part in it (like bass drum, bass, snare) The SL signal doesn't have these. Try with ISOL8 and see/hear yourself.
    If OP wants to isolate what's on the sides and in the mid only, he needs an M/S tool. And making a track mono, doesn't do the job at all.

    ISOL8, as it's a plugin, works independently from any DAW, i. e. with all DAWs.

    Phase flipping does not work if you want to fix a phase issue or if you want to cancel the sides out completely.

    In a metaphor: See the phases as watch hands. SL is pointing at 12 o'clock. If SR is pointing at 12 o'clock too, the signal would be mono. If SR is pointing at 3 o'clock, you're good. If SR is pointing at 6 o'clock, the signal are maximally cancelled out, but not completely, because of different content (two sine waves would be cancelled out completely).
    If SR is somewhere between 12 and 3 or between 3 and 6 o'clock, phase flipping won't make the signal 'better' only alter it to between 6 and 9 or 9 and 12 (12 to 3 -> 6 to 9, 3 to 6 -> 9 to 12).
    Furthermore, it sounds the same if SR is between 12 and 6 o'clock on the right side or on the left side of the watch (means 1 = 11, 3 = 9,... soundwise).
    So, flipping the phase from the 2 o'clock to the 8 o'clock position would turn a too mono signal into a too phase cancelled one.

    I know this sounds a bit confusing, just read it slowly and picture the [​IMG].

    If you want to cancel out what's common to both channels, you just need the side signal (one instance of ISOL8 and press the 'S' button, done).

    If your DAW has an m/s function too, you won't need ISOL8, ofc.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
    No Avenger, Nov 23, 2018
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  15. The Mazeman

    The Mazeman Kapellmeister

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    The Mazeman, Nov 23, 2018
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  16. Grok

    Grok Producer

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    Sure, @No Avenger
     
    Grok, Nov 23, 2018
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  17. junh1024

    junh1024 Rock Star

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    OK.

    It is not possible to do this with DAW native tools, or mid/side techniques. You need a surround upscaler or a true phantom stereo imager like https://aom-factory.jp/products/stereo-imager-d/
     
    junh1024, Nov 23, 2018
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  18. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    Sorry if I might repeat what some of you've said.

    All DAWs have M/S encoders and phase flips/inverts natively, afaik. If not Voxengo has free M/S encoder/decoder.
    Make three stereo send busses and add M/S encoders on all three.

    1) enable Sides. Pan (Sides) to hard left
    2) Enable Mid. Leave it in the center pan
    3) Enable Sides. Pan (Sides) hard right and PHASE INVERT 180 (all DAWs have phase invert).
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
    Baxter, Nov 23, 2018
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  19. The Mazeman

    The Mazeman Kapellmeister

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    Can't I do this with mono busses ??
    I want the Left/Center/RIght busses to be mono.
     
    The Mazeman, Nov 23, 2018
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  20. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    You can further route these to new mono busses (and again pan them correctly). But as this is stereo plugins/effects, they need to operate on stereo busses. The output will be dual mono though, which you can/must pan (in order to make it LCR).
    I hope I made it clear.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
    Baxter, Nov 23, 2018
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  21. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    If this is all you want, you need a stereo signal (channel with stereo wave itself, a stereo bus or fx return), an m/s tool and press the 's' button, that's all.

    If you want separate L/C/R channels, you'll need to set up ISOL8 like this (according to your pic and if you routed Mixdown 1L and Mixdown 1R to Center)

    https://www28.zippyshare.com/v/38qksr1I/file.html
     
    No Avenger, Nov 23, 2018
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