Hate is humanity, love a construct, peace is delusionary.

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Judge Dredd, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Guest

    It's not one sided, it's an accurate reflection on the state of mankind, based on our shared past.
    I don't care if you get it or not, dismiss it out of hand or whatever. It won't change the way we as a species evolved.

    As I have also said, it doesn't mean it's always going to be like this, nor that it's the same for every one. As sure as Darwin killed creationism, there's always room for change to happen, sometimes it will be positive.
    The main tenet here is that humans are intrinsically not very nice to others, especially outsiders or those who they think are getting more than them. Argue against it all you like, but it's evident today all around us. The mass Syrian migration being just one example.
     
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  2. KungPaoFist

    KungPaoFist Audiosexual

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  3. G String

    G String Rock Star

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    That isn't evidence of other alien civilisations. ;)

    I have no problem with the idea that the cosmos contains other life than that on Earth. The fact is there is a complete absence of evidence. Where are the Von Neumann machines? Where are the SETI signals? All the evidence suggests there is no alien civilisation out there.....which is a far more troubling thought.
     
  4. Talmi

    Talmi Audiosexual

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    Seems about as bias and subjective to essentialize man morality based only on the sum of victims of wars than it would be to sum it to the number of people saved by modern medicine (invented by man, and for a while not for profit), probably a far greater number if you just count people saved from simple infections or flu who would have died (and did by millions) just a hundred and fifty years ago (well peniccillin was only discovered and manufactured (without being held by any big pharma corp, by the state btw) starting in the 40s. I'm not counting the millions of others operated and saved each day (included during wars) all over the world by people who often do that because their conscious call them to.
    If i were to judge man morality on this aspect of things, I would proclaim "well humanity is holy".
    But that would be a stupid and bias conclusion, because as often with humanity the glass is half full and the problem more complicated than an easy answer based on partial informations on the matter (like "man has killed in history so he is bad, and that is an objective statement").
     
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  5. refix

    refix Platinum Record

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    it is not entirely incorrect it just just does not read well, especially in the context you present, but i concede you are free to disagree.

    i guess this answers my 'are you trolling?' question. it would seem like you, at least to a certain extent, actually believe this crap.

    while you have in fact presented reasons to back your claims(?), how valid they are is indeed what is up for debate.

    in my estimation you have in fact presented no historical evidence and definitely presented no factual science. maybe this is a case of; one persons historical evidence and science is another persons non-falsifiable opinion[read: rhetoric].

    i do however agree some of the some of the opinions you are rebutting are somewhat pollyanna-ish, to say the least and feelings definitely have no place in this discussion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  6. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Guest

    Yeah, but it's not based on the sum of victims of war, though is it? but a plethora of things.
    Though it is a great example of how humanity isn't great.
     
  7. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Guest

    You sort of invalidated your right to a reasoned response by getting your first sentence wrong. Why would I bother getting deeper in when you play the embarrassment card and then fail at it? Only to reach the gist of your contribution that I must be trolling. :eyeroll:

    And then compound it by saying my source is wrong though I'm free to disagree. lol

    I've stated my reasoning for the post up thread. You'll just have to go and look for it.
    If it doesn't suit your narrative, so be it.
     
  8. refix

    refix Platinum Record

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    you misunderstood my correction the key word is read.

    i did not say you source was wrong. you misunderstand.

    there is no 'deeper' this is a discussion.

    i initially thought you might be trolling but you seem to confirm you are not. i stated that pretty clearly. (i am however still not sure)

    embarrassment card ? lol...

    i have read all your opinions in the thread. i was very specific at what i was disagreeing with.

    i am not espousing a narrative. narratives like feelings have no place in this discussion.
     
  9. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Guest

    And you miss that, as my source states, it's a perfectly acceptable usage of the word by the British, which I am. :shalom:

    Regardless, let's not derail the thread with guesses or questions at motive.
    I guess it comes down to either agree, argue against, lurk or move on.
     
  10. refix

    refix Platinum Record

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    i think my line of inquiry is bearing fruit, at least to those who understand what i am trying to do. i have clearly stated my reasoning. so i am in the 'argue' basket (not necessarily for or against).

    guessing or questioning your motive is the least of my purpose (framing), though you are placing undue emphasis on it for some reason.

    i do not think it is derailing the thread at all. though opinions may differ.
     
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  11. refix

    refix Platinum Record

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    again, i did not question the acceptability of the usage or any such thing.
     
  12. Herr Durr

    Herr Durr Guest

    I'll bet you a General Tso's chicken AND raise you an eggroll, that you have listened to Coast to Coast AM a few times :bow:
     
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  13. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Guest

    Thing is, as much as you want to get involved, I've already dismissed you for said reasons.
    You've added nothing to the debate except a failed attempt at embarrassment and throwing the troll tag around.
    You'll have to find your fruits elsewhere.
     
  14. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Guest

    Getting away from 'hate', a point raised by the 'man is good' brigade is how the negative aspects of human nature are learnt behaviour. I disagree.
    So lets start from the beginning. When kids are very small they are taught to share, to play nicely, to be kind to others. Why is that clear taught/learnt behaviour needed if we're not pre disposed to do the opposite?
     
  15. Talmi

    Talmi Audiosexual

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    Humans aren't predisposed to any behavior, except physical imperatives : eat, shit, breath, sleep, drink and die. Even those physical needs, to be fullfilled we have a bit of learning to do. It doesn't void them never the less, nor render them less imperatives. The fact that we don't know right at birth how to fullfill those needs, doesn't suppress them as needs.
    Other than that we're a blank processor at birth....We learn. To be social, to be good or be bad, etc, etc. Environements (social, familial, geographical, heck even the weather ! etc but also the societies we live in and at what era, judicial and political system which will predispose us to react to violence, sexuality, even signs on the side of the road to tell us when to speed up or slow down, etc.) will play a crucial role in that process, and there is no saying in advance for sure where the chips may fall.
    You should read an author like Norbert Elias, fascinating to understand for example how our rapport to violence has deeply evolved since the middle age (in a good way) when feodal societies evolved from knight society organisation to court society organisation. We lost the habbit to see blood spatter, and things get resoved through duels, and our mood have soften quite a lot, etc.
    Quite the opposite of your thesis. He actually brings objective facts to back down his own theory.
     
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  16. DieM

    DieM Rock Star

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    I would be inclined to agree that there is some Higher Power operating the whole show. No matter how we look at it, everything is set in it's place and the world spins at an optimal rate in order to keep us alive and thriving. I am not a christian and I do not believe in religion but I do believe that there is a Universal power controling the cogs of life. I don't believe that we emenated from a pool of bacteria filled mud and evolved into the humans that we are now. There is a grand plan and we are all a part of it, whether we believe it or not!
     
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  17. DieM

    DieM Rock Star

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    All You Need Is Hate La la la la la!
     
  18. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Guest

    I'm more inclined to think it's a fluke, a we're here at the right time, right place sort of thing.
     
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  19. DieM

    DieM Rock Star

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    The thing is,is that none of us really know anything! I wish that my beliefs were true but I may be far off centre. I do feel that there is something beyond this physical existance and when we leave this vesel for a body that our spirit moves on to another realm. I definitely do not believe that it's all chance and that everything has just fell into place by chance. There seems to be so much order in everything from the structure of a daffodil to the aligning of the Earth, sun and moon and so on. If you were to measure it all mathematically then you would be amazed. It is so complex and precise!
     
  20. refix

    refix Platinum Record

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    ha! "thou hath been dismissed". yet here i still am.

    "thing is," your "said reasons" are patently wrong.

    i have added plenty, it is just that you have chosen to ignore the larger primary ontological reasoning and, for some reason, overly concentrated on some dumb fluff. i thought we were not getting into our feels here; thought we were plumbing the depths of our existential angst -- i guess not.

    i absolutely respect your right not to engage and if i were you i would not either because there are massive holes in your reasoning. these patterns are wholly typical of this method of argumentation.

    i guarantee that no one is going to be absolutely right or wrong here -- it is a fairly safe space. i have had these dumb discussions for many years now (granted though, not for many years recently). have no fear of the non-existent -- sally forth!.

    i beg you, do not let a few soft probing jabs throw you off your righteous game.

    "don't be scared homie"
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
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