I've heard from friends who know *much more about computers than me, that NVIDIA aren't the best drivers as per audio usage go; I have NVIDIA because I like my PC games (and, more so, because I have yet to be able to afford a custom desktop, tailored for audio production exclusively.) Unsure of the specifics of why, but AMD is supposed to be superior to NVIDIA when it comes to GPUs that will be being used for audio related stuff. "Discussing" AMD vs. NVIDIA is a lot like "discussing" PC vs. MAC, so it shouldn't take more than five seconds for you to find some computer forum that has more info.

 

The telemetry crap Nvidia added and the screen recording stuff is what causes increased latency from Nvidia drivers. Disable all those extra services if you have an Nvidia GPU. You can check how much latency a driver causes with this: http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

 

Maybe it's just me, but the road MS is taking with Windows leads to a swamp.
Windows 10 is just no good for pretty much anything. Too much hidden processes, inconsistent GUI, bloated kernel, ads in paid OS and telemetry.
And since MS is clearly saying we'll provide no alternative, for the undecided happy Windows 7 user, the path I have decided to take is GNU/Linux.

And so far, it's not that hard - Wine managed every VST/VSTi plugin I threw at it. Of course, learning new OS, especially as geeky one as Linux take time. That's why I opted in now, rather than closer to 14th Jan 2020, which will mark the end of extended support for Win7 (which wouldn't be that bad but devs will phase out Windows 7 support in their drivers completely)

 

But Andrew if that's the best you, as a beginner iX user can say about your move, why did you do it at all?
Most Win newbies as well say: So far it's not that hard.

I just don't get why every Mac user and every iX user tries to make the rest to change their OS here, wich reportedly has as much issues as Windows. I do know all three relevant OSs and do like all. But without fiddling and reading and asking questions in forums nobaody seems to get ANY of these running smoothly as he/she wants.

On one hand it's off topic on the other hand it just starts another my-OS-is-better-than-yours-arguing

So WHY? ("question was: windows 10 ltsb vs windows 7" and not wich OS is best for Audio)

Can't we just agree, we all love and hate our OS and assume the others made an informed decision and are no idiots?

BTW: All my Win 10 machines are running smoothly. No ads, no telemetry. And that's easier to do than setting up iX as a beginner.

 

There have been reports of Win10 UEFI installs corrupting bios: https://www.google.com/search?q=windows+10+corrupts+bios
Another reason is how resource intensive it is - 40GB used HDD straight after install. Win7 had 8GB, WinXP 2GB, and average linux distro 4-6GB.
4.5GB RAM used out of the box
Why should any OS take that much? Also why does it always keeps HDD active and updates when it's not supposed to? What if user prefers LTS approach?

The argument "HDD/RAM is cheap" doesn't hold water. Yes, it's cheap (relatively speaking) but why should it be wasted? It's like losing $5 note. It won't put you on the street, but it certainly feels like a waste.

Sure, but not all are presented with all available choices and may see linux as too impenetrable for beginners, which is not the case.
Ultimately, I agree. But what demographics is fully aware of the implications of upgrading to anything?

Not entirely, as the question of replacing Win7 main use case, to keep with driver compatibility, is going to be relevant sooner or later. Not for legacy hardware, but for new machines.

At this point in time, I wouldn't say linux is the best for audio, due to limited support from devs of audio software. But it has a foundation to outperform other OSes in this regard, performance-wise.

Not really, running dual boot has its advantages, such as testing out different OS or maintaining compatibility.
The above is my experience, others' may differ. I could not run some of the software from Win7 installs.

 

Last edited: Aug 13, 2018

And there it starts already: Arguing about what is wrong with the OS others are using.
More interesting is: What's wrong with the OS you are using and what were the problems you encountered when you started to set up a Linux systen. Really none? Everything works out of the box? Without knowledge of an expert or from a forum? I won't believe that.

"And so far, it's not that hard" sounds not that enthusiastic.

40 GB? That's just not true. Fictional data/alternative facts. I set up a virtual Win 10 machine, even after 3 months there's only 16 GB used.

It always had, but the userbase is just too small to be of interest for many developers and will most likely never be. Aside from servers, what's the numbers for Win/Mac/Linux as installed PCs?

 

Last edited: Aug 13, 2018

Even they try to force win10 updates for everyone it not work

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13201/intel-preps-h310-revision-with-win7-coffee-lake-support

Intel revision h310 win7 support August 9, 2018! Wake up AMD, we want win7 support and some still want XP x86 x64 support

 

Not arguing. Just answering your previous question:

I have close to no problems with the current Win7 install.

I never said none. Of course there were issues, especially with Archlinux distro, which doesn't work out of the box. But most of them were fixed thanks to extensive documentation for that distro. And for the rest, yes, just googling it usually reveals a solution. For all other uses, there are countless forums.

That brings up more questions than it answers. What's the total uptime of that VM? What software is installed? Does it require any SDK/libraires that'd normally get updated? Does it have internet access? ...
So far on the installs I made (counting full Win 10 Pro install) the used up HDD space was close to 40 GB. Maybe that has changed since the time I made the last attempt.

Maybe. It does require learning something new, that's all. And that takes time.

I lost focus recently, but for linux it was around 5%, very close to MacOSX (not sure which one was leading). And yet MacOSX gets the same attention from audio devs, if not bigger one than leading Windows. It's what the target demographics are using.

 

Last edited: Aug 13, 2018

No. You said "... how resource intensive it is - 40GB used HDD straight after install." Not more, not less.

BTW: I installed a clean machine with Win 10 1803 (04-2018) just a moment ago as proof: 10,5GB" used HDD straight after install" to use you words.

When one reads all available documentation and available information about Windows 10 it is possible, even for beginners, to set up a stable system without more issues than with Mac (what's basically is a Unix derivate) or Linux and without ads/telemetry. There are countless forums as well.

No change of subject please, you were speaking about your new Linux installation.

 

Last edited: Aug 13, 2018

And that's the solution? An OS that doesn't even work out of the box?

Installing Win 10 as described above took me 15 min. Adapting to no ads/no Telemetry/ no bloatware will cost me another 30 min. maximum.

I don't say Windows 10 is better than Mac or Linux.
But what I do say is, all OS have their issues.
And I do say, who doesn't make Windows 10 work well hasn't just made his homework.

I would find a "Installing a Linux system as audio workstation" an interesting thread. Maybe I would try it myself. But here? Just the same procedure as every week.

p.s.: sorry for the second post, too big enter key

 

Last edited: Aug 13, 2018

even MS know win10 current is suck, this is why they say Win10S

https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-windows-10-s-2017-4

The S stands for "streamlined, significant performance, and security," Microsoft Windows boss Terry Myerson said onstage at Microsoft's event. Myerson said the S also stands for the "soul" of the operating system.

spend money for ltsb but S will be for streamline SIGNIFICANT performance and security?

 

Wouldn't it be better to discuss this elsewhere (in PM for example) and then update this topic on the conclusion?
This might be interesting exchange.

 

I would recommend any OS more modern than Window 7. I just switched from Win 8.1 to win10 2016ltsp. These two are basicly the same, but microsoft makes it very challanging to run modern hardware on windows 8. If you want to, you need to dig deep and heavily modify .inf files and so on.
same with windows 7, but even harder or impossible.
I keep my old machines for quite some time for other tasks than audio, i usually only have one master image that is deployed to all machines, be it notebook or daw. So i have experienced win 7, 8.1 and win10 on several machines and all versions on the same machine. Windows 7 sucked more and had more issues than the other ones.
This is my personal experience. And I kindly ask not to make this some strange religion like thread. Most people fighting for windows 7 as it was some god like savior, never experienced an os more modern than windows 7.

Oh, by the way: just install classic shell and look and feel is as it used to be. Spying is no issue, you just need to deactivate these services. If you think this is too much hassle, buy a mac and let apple spy on you.

 

Haven't read all the latest posts but two fast details:

It happens also with, at least, Windows 10 Pro v1803 with the old MBR. A nice user from this same thread, I think, commented v1803 was a bad one, with hangs creating an infinite boot loop while installing.
Not only it happened to me, it f* up my old BIOS to the point of, for instance OCing to 5.2Ghz my 3.00Ghz stock CPU. Insane. I managed to get it working but at the end I rolled back to my trusted v1709. I searched the net, poor guys with the same problem including laptops heating to death lol

That being said Win 10 v1709 tweaked works like a charm for me. Even slightly better than Win 7. With my old computer.

That's not accurate. They rewrote the core of the Mac OS to be UNIX compatible. Mac OS has always been much more than the core, just like Windows, including COM and equivalent models and so on.

There's a lot of understandable confusion about what Unix is, but the most practical IMHO would be: if the source code compiles in one Unix, compiles in another (with very few changes). That doesn't happen in Windows or in the old Mac OS.

Edited: @twoheart kindly gave me an explanation and basically is right though in a deep way

 

Last edited: Aug 14, 2018

Quickly; It might have been best if you put up a poll for this for a quick view and the scanned the comments for details, info, optimization links, etc.. Just a thought.
I am using the latest (last,) version of Studio One 3 (while testing out 4,) and everything that I am running that can be a CPU glutton, Kontakt, Diva, any sample-heavy VSTi plug-ins, are all still running fine on WIN7Ult. so, I really have no need to switch to WIN10.
I am aware that the support will stop, which a lot of people are saying is the end of WIN7, but I really don't need support. The infrastructure is not going erode and crumble just because they have decided to end support.
Basically, I see the OS situation as something that I will continue looking into, but at this time, I don't need one more thing to distract me from making music. A good OS is the one that you don't even have to think about, it's just there, working slightly; WIN7Ult. works for my needs.
Good luck with whatever decision you make.

 

For me as well.
And I push every function update as far into future as possible. MS often "introduces" errors with new funtion updates.
I you will, the scrambling of the BIOS or UEFI is a new function

 

Definitely disabling updates and a whitelist-mode firewall are two very important stages of the tweaking

haha I can picture it:
Win32 API: string fuckUpYourBios(enum typeOfBios, int deepnessOfMess)
Returns zero ended string "LMAO" on succesful execution

 

I have installed OS on countless PCs and never had any problem like bootloop or anything. Never had any problem with win7 and win10. Not a single time. Every time I do fresh install.

 

Believe me, the install boot loop was a first for me. The BIOS messing even more (and they're probably related). Only with v1803 and it's consistently reported on the net. I was very skeptic when I read about it in this very same thread because like I said Win10 v1709 and a former one (the first Win10 I tried) have worked perfectly.

Talking always about fresh installs.

 

I thought i'd let go but cmon guys. @Andrew is right, wtf is MS doing all these years. Instead of introducing feats that would benefit users in the pro and home world, they work hard to develop more bloat and spyware.
And who said Mac isn't get better? Really?
Apple File System rocks with instant file copies. No more tedious transfers. Matching this will give some sleepless nights to MS engineers. I will skip the (real) refinements Apple adds every now and then in their OS, APFS alone is a serious reason for Mac users to upgrade to High Sierra, if they haven't already and for new buyers it's a one more reason to go Mac. As i said before, i just hope MS will try imitating it as they 've done so blatantly in the past with other Mac feats.
Now you know i am not a "Macster", between the studio and home i have 9 Windows machines (6x win7, one XP x64 for testing and 2x Win10) and one Hackintosh and i only do some work from time to time on various Mac/Hackintosh systems but for me it feels Apple's soft engineers are always at least one technological step ahead. And Win10 still sucks and blows with the crap they keep introducing. Bring fkn Bill Gates back lol.
Cheers guys

 

Last edited: Aug 14, 2018