Just an observation - In case nobody noticed, the "latest threads" were all in an Asian language. I noticed nobody here translated them - perhaps not many can. I cannot tell if it is Cantonese, Mandarin, Kanji or Korean.
So basically - how many languages a person speaks, what country they come from, how well they speak any language has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of any music.
Pop music has always been defined as what is the most popular in any given year, decade or period, which is where the term is derived from.
What is it? It can be any style whatsoever.
Apparently the first Pop musician was Franz Liszt who was born in 1811. That was classical music. So styles are irrelevant. Not everyone will like what is supposed to be the most popular music of the time.

I see no point in anyone crapping on someone else's writing unless they can do better in all areas - Notoriety, Money made from it, Looks, airplay views and song structure. All of them.
I am a musician not of any style but I respect that all music styles have something to offer the Art form.
People define themselves if they choose that but too many let others define them.

 

@LuckySevens My perspective is anything that is/was popular in the US. I 've no grunt against any music genre, the fact i posted two "hiphop" tracks means only that they exhibit some of the worse lyrics ever and 6ix9ine has 250mil views while LilPump has 750 mil views.
But hey, indulge yourself with some lyrics by 21 times Grammy winner JayZ and his beautiful wife Beyonce with their song "Apeshit":

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Stack my money fast and go (fast, fast, go)
Fast like a Lambo (skrrt, skrrt, skrrt)
I be jumpin' off the stage, ho (jumpin', jumpin', hey, hey)
Crowd better savor (crowd goin' ape, hey)
I can't believe we made it (this is what we made, made)
This is what we're thankful for (this is what we thank, thank)
I can't believe we made it (this a different angle)
Have you ever seen the crowd goin' apeshit? Rah!

Gimme my check, put some respeck on my check
Or pay me in equity, pay me in equity
Or watch me reverse out the deck (skrrt)
He got a bad bitch, bad bitch
We livin' lavish, lavish
I got expensive fabrics
I got expensive habits
He wanna go with me (go with me)
He like to roll the weed (roll the weed)
He wanna be with me (be with me)
He wanna give me that vitamin D (D!)
Ice ornaments, icy style tournaments (woo)
You ain't on to this (no)
Don't think they on to this (no)
(Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah)
Bought him a jet
(Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah)
Shut down Colette
(Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah)
Phillippe Patek
(Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah)
Get off my dick (uh, hey)

Gimme the ball, gimme the ball, take the top shift (ball)
Call my girls and put 'em all on a spaceship (brr)
Hang one night with 'Yoncé, I'll make you famous (hey)
Have you ever seen the stage goin' apeshit? Rah

Stack my money fast and go (fast, fast, go)
Fast like my Lambo (skrrt, skrrt, skrrt)
Jumpin' off the stage, ho (jumpin', jumpin', hey, hey)
Crowd better savor (crowd goin' ape, hey)
I can't believe we made it (this is what we made, made)
This is what we're thankful for (this is what we thank, thank)
I can't believe we made it (this a different angle)
Have you ever seen the crowd goin' apeshit? (Offset!)

I'm a gorilla in the fuckin' coupe
Finna pull up in the zoo
I'm like Chief Keef meet Rafiki, who been lyin' "King" to you?
Pocket, watch it, like kangaroos
Tell these clowns we ain't amused
'Nana clips for that monkey business, 4-5 got change for you
Motor cade when we came through
Presidential with the planes too
One better get you with the residential
Undefeated with the cane too
I said no to the Superbowl, you need me, I don't need you
Every night we in the endzone, tell the NFL we in stadiums too
Last night was a fuckin' zoo
Stagedivin' in a pool of people
Ran through Liverpool like a fuckin' Beatle
Smoke gorilla glue like it's fuckin' legal
Tell the Grammy's fuck that 0 for 8 shit
Have you ever seen the crowd goin' apeshit? (Rah)

Stack my money fast and go (fast, fast, go)
Fast like my Lambo (skrrt, skrrt, skrrt)
Jumpin' off the stage, ho (jumpin', jumpin', hey, hey)
Crowd better savor (crowd goin' ape, hey)
I can't believe we made it (this is what we made, made)
This is what we're thankful for (this is what we thank, thank)
I can't believe we made it (this a different angle)
Have you ever seen the crowd goin' apeshit? Rah!

Haters in danger (dangerous)
Whole lot of gangin' (gang)
35 chains (chains, chains)
I don't give a damn 'bout the fame (nope)
G8 planes (tshh, tshh)
Alexander Wang (woo!)
She a thot that you claim (woo!)
Can't be toppin' my reign (c'mon, c'mon, c'mon)
Poppin', I'm poppin', my bitches all poppin'
We go to the dealer and cop it all (cop it all)
Sippin' my favorite alcohol (alcohol)
Got me so lit, I need Tylenol (Tylenol)
All of my people, I free 'em all (free 'em all)
Hop in the whip, wanna see the stars
Sendin' the missiles off, trickin' my inhibitions off
250 for the Richard Mille, yeah yeah, live in a field
My body make Jigga go kneel
Man, my momma, my loyal, my shield
Look at my jewelry, I'm lethal (lethal)
These diamonds on me, they see-through (see-through)
I'm a Martian, they wishin' they equal (equal)
I got M's on the back like Evisu

Gimme the ball, gimme the ball, take a top shift (she went crazy)
Call my girls and put 'em all on a spaceship
Hang one night with 'Yoncé, I'll make you famous
Have you ever seen the crowd goin' apeshit? Rah!

Stack my money fast and go (fast, fast, go)
Fast like a Lambo (skrrt, skrrt, skrrt)
I be jumpin' off the stage, ho (jumpin', jumpin', hey, hey)
Crowd better savor (crowd goin' heavy)
I can't believe we made it (this is what we made, made)
This is what we're thankful for (this is what we thank, thank)
I can't believe we made it (this a different angle)
Have you ever seen the crowd goin' apeshit? Rah!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Fast and go
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

And here's another star Fergie with Milf Money :
You got that, you got that, you got that milk money
I got that, I got that, I got that MILF money
You got that, you got that, you got that milk money
I got that, I got that, I got that MILF money
I got that MILF money
I got that MILF money
I got that MILF money
I got that MILF money

[Verse 1]
Heard you in the mood for a little MILFshake
Welcome to the Dairy Dutchess Love Factory
I could whip it up, fix you up straight away
Come on in the front door, leaving at the back door
Whip it, flip it, hey
Been working at your service to give it to ya
Didn't mean to make you nervous, you motherfucker

[Chorus]
You got that, you got that, you got that milk money
I got that, I got that, I got that MILF money
I got that MILF money
I got that MILF money

[Verse 2]
Me and the girls, up in the club
Hating-ass hoes, but I don't give a fuck
Running amok, owning the spot
Buying the bar like I bought all these rocks
I been working all week, now where the hell is my drink?
Hair and nails is on fleek
All my girls on fleek
Cause we I-N-D-E-P-E-N-D-E-N-T
Do you know what that means?
Can't see me B-R-O-K-E, I'm P-A-I-D
You heard about me, I'm saying

[Chorus]
You got that, you got that, you got that milk money
I got that, I got that, I got that MILF money
You got that, you got that, you got that milk money
I got that, I got that, I got that MILF...

[Verse 3]
I've been whippin' this up
I've been tippin' this cup
I've been waiting my turn
I've been working so hard
Got my spirit turnt up
And I can't stop now
I've been running so long
I been vibing so strong
I want it, I need it, I got it for real
I love it, real woman
I'll feed you this meal
Hey mama, I did it, the top of the hill
Been a minute, don't forget it
Motherfucker, I'm ill

[Chorus]
Now lemme see you milfshake
(Lemme see you milfshake)
I got that MILF money
I got that MILF money
I got that MILF money
(Lemme see you milfshake)
I got that MILF money
I got that MILF money (shake, shake, shake, shake)
I got that MILF money

[Outro]
Been working at your service to give it to ya
Didn't mean to make you nervous
To give it to ya
You motherfucker

 

Last edited: Aug 10, 2018

Franz Liszt, what a poser. He sold out and even back then in 1875 was called by The NY Times "The Snoop Dog" of his day. Yea, Snoop even turned himself white, that is how far he went to bow down to "The Man"!

Franz Liszt



Calvin Cordozar Broadus Jr. (Snoop Dog)

 

Artists from Sweden, France, Japan, Italy, Germany etc. may even sell millions of records, but are practically unknown outside their own countries. When (extremely rarely, once in a while, 0001%...) one of them becomes popular worldwide it's just because the U.S.A. notice them. And they must sing in English. Gangnam style (an exception) was a joke. Latinos pop hits are mainly produced in the U.S.A. They are part of the busoness, then.

 

Well, Psy "Gangnam Style" was the 1st to hit one billion views on Youtube (the very same day of the "fateful Maya Calendar Date" in 2012 that was supposed to see a new world appear, for some New Agers), and Luis Fonsi "Despacito" is the first to hit 3 billions, 4 billions and 5 billions views on Youtube.

These two "first" are not in english. No english spoken song has made this kind of "first".

Is there a conclusion that can be found, with these facts ?... Does it show there some kind of shifting dynamic ?...

I really don't care specifically about US music.
I care about good music, from anywhere, when I feel it nourishes the soul. It can come from USA, it can come from anywhere else. I don't care how much millions it sells.

Of course, I found pitiful the video that opened this thread. It feels a great misery. Fakery, megalomania, unauthenticity, nothing that nourishes the soul, a kind of vampiry sensation. Oh well, it was just a bad dream, everything is ok.

 

Europeans made very popular music (pop music), when some of the countries claiming to be world class today even didn't exist:
Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn, Brahms, Wagner, Schumann, Bach, Debussy, Bartok, Bruckner, Chopin, Bizet, Dvorak, Bellini ...

Don't know if there's a sales statistics.
But what I'm sure about is, that these will be remembered in another 200 years from now.

 

They are not very popular worldwide. Rammstein and Kraftwerk cannot even be called "pop music", I would call them "alternative". I guess if Rammstein wanted to make it in American top charts, they should have sung in English. Luckily they didn't (except "Amerika" which is not exactly a pro-U.S. song, LOL).

 

My last words on this one.
All those threads created by @Xster point into one direction: producing resentment and hate under the AS members.
It's idiotic to follow (t)his direction, as trouble is what he wan'ts to sow.

 

"English natives"; natively, dont speek english"?"

..they're justified and they're ancient
and they like to roam the land
they're justified and they're ancient
I hope you understand
they don't want to upset the apple cart
and they don't want to cause any harm
but if you don't like what they're going to do
you better not stop them cause they're coming through..

 

Don't bet on this mate. Kraftwerk's disarming simplicity in songwriting is what steered the change from the "traditional" Beatles type of pop songwriting containing middle 8s and bridges, to the more simple modern pop all built around a single riff or simple lick/theme. Count Jean Michel Jarre as a similar influence too. What is also important is that they are both non natively English speaking artists but yet they were the pioneers along with Vangelis and a few other electronic artists to influence generations upon generations of electronic (and not only of course) musicians. And the paradox is most of those influenced were/are natively English speaking alright. The list of Kraftwerk listed as a major influence starts from OMD, Depeche Mode to somewhere in Daft Punk and Armin Van Buuren and most likely will never end. Oh and Vangelis is Greek as well.
Lastly, if these aren't pop songs, i don't know what is

 

Last edited: Aug 10, 2018

Yes but aren't all pop musicians in the limelight "Posers?" - If they are in the limelight they cannot stand there like stuffed dummies so they have to "Pose" lol

It goes with the Pop music territory I think.

 

@taskforce I guess everyone in this forum knows the pioneers (Kraftwerk, Jarre, Vangelis, so called "kraut rock", TD, Schulze, Eno, Sakamoto, Sylvian, Anderson and the likes), because more or less we are all synth guys. The fact is all these seminal artists are not "pop", not even electropop. It's electronic music, sometimes minimalist, sometimes pseudosymphonic, sometimes experimental... How you can compare these projects to "pop music" is beyond me. And moreover, in terms of records, they probably have sold (all together) in their entire lives what a single U.S. pop star sells in half a year. "Pop music" for me is: catchy melodies, simple lyrics, simple 4/4 rhythms, short time songs (3-4 minutes), easy choruses, stage presence (lights, dancers, smiles, costumes), teenagers everywhere. I mean: million 12-16 y.o. fans.

 

You're describing consumers (heart of the target) not pop music. Obviously electronic music is now part of the very general label "pop music". You could also call it massively consumed music (with the format that goes with it, that allows its mass consuption : recorded as opposed to live, not more than 3 to 5 minutes piece, repetitive lyrics, single and easily identified melody, as opposed to "savant music" like Opera or concerto which were plaid for a while only live and were complex and long pieces that only people taught in the theory of music - even if they didn't practice it - could understand fully). Anyway, electronic music isn't a niche or experimental anymore since about half a century. The kiddies are more familiar with synths than with pianos, they make music on computer without theory lessons, etc. That's also a legacy of "electro" in particular and "pop music" in general.
You - and so does Pinky - tend to mix the notions of top of the charts, most selling artists with the notion of "popular music" (and its definition I agree is more than ambiguous) but they are different things.

A good example of popular music that doesn't explode the international charts or get out of the US at all (except maybe Canada) is Country music. And yet it's obviously pop music, and the artists in the genre when they succeed are widely successfull without a doubt as much as an R&B diva, as local as it may be. In every countries the genres and the artists that sell the best localy are labeled "popular music" (they still are in that general format side of thing) too except they don't export at all, few exceptions aside.

 

Last edited: Aug 11, 2018

I think when you claim "electronic music is not a niche anymore" you are referring to electronic pop music (edm, electropop, dance, italo etc.), not to electronic music (see above). Electronic pop music follows the same rules: catchy melodies, easy lyrics, simple rhythms etc. The only difference is that real instruments are replaced with synths. Of course sometimes it is difficult to establish what's what (it's not math science). Regarding the kiddies playing with daws and loops, I would not call them "musicians" but "players". In my opinion what makes music "pop music" is: simplicity + brevity + catchiness + business. And you must know at least some scales and chords to create something decent.

 

Last edited: Aug 11, 2018

I'm referring to electronic music that has been done since it's called electro, cause electro has the pop music format since it made its way to the radio more than 30 years ago.... You on the other hand are referring to artist like Steve Reich (minimalist genre and not yet electro, which he inspired by some aspects) and others which were still making "savant" music, albeit experimental (and now they are qualified by critic as contemporan artists, which isn't part of the pop music realm). According to your own definition of pop music (catchy melodies, simple lyrics, etc, etc) I don't see how Kraftwerk, Jarre or Eno don't qualified. They are absolutely both in the realm of "pop music" (as opposed to savant) and in the realm of electro.
The only difference between them and Daft Punk...is well...there isn't any. Except the timeline. Maybe their sale numbers, and between Jarre and Daft Punk well it's propbably a draw.

 

The difference? It's easy: let a naive grandma listen to Kraftwerk or Eno or Jarre. Reaction: "what's that?". Now let her listen to a pop song (whatever: 40s,50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s, some current pop hit). Reaction: "lalala, nice...". This is "pop music": catchy tunes for the masses. Daft Punk could be called "electropunk", not exactly "pop music" (albeit rather popular). Grandma would not sing it.