Pretty much as the title says, anyone with info on what year Waves began employing their watermarking system please step forward..

honestly I'm not hoping for much in the way of answers here I might just call them up myself...can't be bothered right now :L

Also, is anyone really bothered by their watermark? The only people they've sued are studios that they entered in posing as producers/engineers...and beforehand calling up going "If I hire will you have da Waves plugins?".

To my knowledge they haven't filed a lawsuit against anyone based solely on watermarks, and even then they were allowing for out-of-court settlement of around $6800? (at least in one instance I have heard of)

Anyways back to the point! any info on what time these watermarks started popping up would be appreciated cos I'm new to all this (wasn't around then), cos' everyone and their aunt knows the Waves plugs are watermarked, but I only learnt of this through other forum posts dating way back...

also what company implements their system?

Again, I'm not hoping for much, but even a company name would be nice. Thankyou

 

Waves and a few others have watermarks, oh and to answer your question since vers 6

 

I cant say you the company (may be memo-media), but Memo Rhein is the owner of this watermark system. I worked for him some time ago. The whole method is a complete shit. It was denied by audiophiles' testing but was (nonetheless) licensed and already made a lot of music sounds distorted. But it is like drugs, alcohol, weapon, etc... It'll never stop.

ps. I'm not sure I may say more.

 

what exactly is this? I know what watermarking is, but what is it in this scenario...

 

Audiowatermarking embedds additional data and information in your audio. It is encoded in your audio, but the modification is normally so small, that people will not hear any significant difference. The audiowatermark can only be read by the company/person who embedded it. Still, it changes your audio, and the watermark cannot be removed by converting it to e.g. mp3 or other formats. It cannot be removed. Tone2 (Gladiator and ElectraX), Waves, Cytomic (The Glue) and some other companies use audiowatermarks in their software. The serialnumber maybe encoded in the audio for example. So if crackers don't remove the watermark, a track made with a pirated version can later be indentified by the company as such. Personally I am against watermarking, because IT DOES ALTER your audio. If every company would use watermarks, you will have lots of watermark in your audio, which can result in distortion/noise. It is just another stupid strategy in the fight against piracy, but it is reality in these days. It is also used by record companies, when they give out promo cds of unreleased albums to identify the potential uploader. I think it is ok in this situation, but it is not in audio plugins. Imagine you use 10 plugins that have watermarking in your track. Then your track has 10 watermarks. The thing is, the watermarks are always there, no matter if you are a legal buyer of the software or not.

 

Thankyou Robot my fine friend, i understand it now. thank you all :P

that piece of info was hard to come by by one who's not in the know ie. ME!

And yes watermarking does distort the audio, otherwise it would not survive the conversion steps, and it is for this reason that a few 'good' developers (good or not) chose not to use a watermarking system.

 

And these companies are going to check every song ever sold for its watermark? thats a lot of man hours...

then... if they find it.. theres no way in hell they are going to take any action against anyone, would take forever in a modern day court to fight these types of claims, and for what... a share in a few 49c downloads?



Also, One could claim, they didn't even know the version of some plugin that was used on their track was warez, and how far along the production line it was used, or by whom...

It's a joke, and a waste of money in an effort to deter people that have no common sense.... imo.

Paranoia.. will destroy ya *yes*



Personally, using waves 7 for PC i have heard no noticeable difference in quality or sound performance.

 

What about if you record your song from your Daw to a tapemachine and then import it back to your daw is the watermark still there? i think not since all the digital info will be lost and in bonus you got a more analogue sound.And as One Reason said how in the world are they gonna check all songs its not possible well maybe they go for top 20 list in every country or so and even then it is a lot of music.

 

@One Reason
I totally agree with all your points, as of today they have only sued 2 studios as I have said, I doubt they would go for an individual. And they haven't done anything with watermark-based evidence only, so yes I doubt the system works quite as omniscient-ly as we all assume (our own assumptions) it does, well at least those of us who aren't Robot or Nanuhi assume!

However, it is better to be paranoid than to pay that WUP farting company for their sound

 

Well, I have to say, hype aside, the new Waves plugins, the CLA'a, Maserati etc.. the good ones.. as far as I am concerned are exceptional, if not CPU hogging plugins.

I do love their simplicity and overall sound, especially on vocals, I haven't recorded a vocal without them, since I have had them.

Having said that.. would I pay what they want for them..right now? No.. 1. No way I can afford it, and 2. If I ever did get a record deal, Im gonna assume the label will have their own studio to re-record our stuff professionally.

So, as it stands, yes I am using them, but only to get our material as good as I can to put out there for people to 'notice'

If.. I ever make enough to be able to afford them, or any other plugins for that matter, or open my own studio, I would go ahead and bleed myself dry to purchase them.

If for no other reason than they helped me get to where I was... and to keep my karma on the plus side.

If they want to sue me before then.. then best of luck.. I don't have a dime to my name. *no*

 

I was thinking the same!

 

For me all this Watermark is more bullshit than a reality.
They can check all songs in a matter of seconds, as, if they have a Watermark system, they also have a way to check it without have to listen the music.
I know this, 'cause I already see a guy working with this system.
If you use more software (From other companies) and if you use the "old" analogue recorder, too mix/master your track, it will be very hard to them to prove that you have used warezed software.
For example, Image-Line knows that 75% of all FL Studio users have illegal software in their machines.
They also know that changing the protection system will cost them a lot of money, and they will see their software cracked at the same.
The iLok system have shown their fails, as ASSiGN and specially AiR, have already released some iLok plugins.
For me, only the new "ignition key" by Propellerheads, have shown, that, maybe we never have a Reason 6 or Record in our machines.

Let's hope that one team crack this system, as, in the future, new teams that may appear, can crack it.

 

whatever the protection, what has been done can be undone... the question is whether Teams will be willing to spend 2000 hours to do so...especially as, aside from being an intellectual challenge, it is for the sole benefit of your shiny booties! :phones:

 

Peace, guys.
You may 100 times record to typemichine or whatsoever else, even apply heavy distortion, chorus, etc... The WM will be at its place. That is true.

 

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread. For example Cytomic doesn't use any watermarking for their plug-ins (currently only Glue). They just use personal builds for every customer, but it doesn't put any watermark in the audio.

 

Cheers for the extra info

my take

Tone2
- OMG that man made a prat of himself a while back, having "bennies" on forums about cracks. i can never get a tone2 crack to work. i'm not even sure if they are any good

Waves
- are they for 'old people' and 'noobs'
Old poeple trying to get that crap old sound back - "GRANDDAD ...iTs your ears your deaf" tut
or noobs with a 10 minute Cubase startup and 3000 average similar waves plugs
(ok i like a few waves plugs but nothing special)

Cytomic (The Glue)
Deadmau5 said he liked it - i wet myself with a hard on at the same time......... then i got it together....... the E's wore off and i was ok with voxengo elephant. and lives sidechain

Waves Studio engineers are probably going whos Deadmau5 right now

i bet he didn't use the glue on this record lolz

Watermak this!

 

 

interesting recent article about Dither Modulation with Distortion Compensation Audio Watermarking Algorithm Based on DWT

 

Like oldor said:
> The thing is, the watermarks are always there, no matter if you are a legal buyer of the software or not.

If we're talking high-end plugins, where even tiny differences between noise shaping and dithering algorithms, processing bit-depths and voodoo seem to matter, it seems these companies take their customers on a frightening ride. I wonder if all that watermarking was still "unnoticeable" in the final song if every plugin manufacturer jumped on the watermarking train, each using its different secret algorithm...
Thanks god there are alternatives :dancing: