"Complicated" by Avril Lavigne

 

Not to be a monkey wrench, but complicated in what way? Harmonically, melodically, rhythmically?

 

When I first was turned on to the wonderful world of HD recording and getting FL Studio 7 I had no sound card, no mic...no nuthin' but the Piano Roll and whatever came with the DAW back then. I was intrigued given the opportunity to paint little dashes and dots that would spit out whatever was drawn, what I thought of as those rolls that unfurled and were recorded in that medium by pianist and sold to the general public, that is those who had a player piano.

This is the very first thing I every wrote in my new medium of expression, a very complicated and something impossible for me to ever play. I spent hours hunched in front of my tiny computer monitor with mouse in hand experimenting and daydreaming this to come into existence. I was working off of the energy and remembered Looney Toons music from my beloved Bugs Bunny cartoons.

It is fairly complicated so fits right into this discussion.

https://clyp.it/2m0gvqpx

 

For me, the most complicated "electronic" track I've heard (at least in terms of the kind of track I wish I was capable of making), has got to be Hybrid's Finished Symphony. It's just such an insanely beautiful, breathtaking piece of music:

 

This is a perfect time to point out that ''complex'' music isn't a unique by-product of this century.
From what is known of the earliest surviving musical fragments of ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt and Mesopotamia, music was a science, it could consist of simple songs or tunes, but they also knew about the ''chaotic'' and abstract possibilities of expression.

Here is a great example by a musicological ensemble that unearthed and put to record some of the earliest chants and fragments known. To introduce you into music from such a long time ago, they begin with an ''anakrousis'' a literal ''explosion'' of instrumental noise, to prepare your senses for this journey. They use the most authentic instruments also, very unusual:

Some knowledge is lost, some gets rediscovered, imitated or does reoccur.
When you listen to very authentic recordings of ''archaic'' peoples around the world, it is surprising to hear all kind of complexities, both vocal and instrumental. Music is at the heart of many aspects of their life from birth to death, but also for sheer leisure.
There are many complex musical cultures and notations from Asia and elsewhere that can be challenging to our own ears.

Also, closer to us, the development of European sacred polyphony led to what is called ''Ars subtilior'', the third current of polyphonic composition that reached such great heights of complexity in the 14th and 15th centuries that some musicological manuals consider these works as experimental as some 20th century works.

Here is one of my favorites, not too complicated, but lyric and slightly odd:

The renaissance also saw its load of inventions, the polyphonic works of this short era cannot be underestimated:

Madrigals of the late renaissance and early Baroque could also get pretty wild at times! It seems each era had its complex musical styles.

The 20th century was often influenced by ''primitive archaism'', in both art and music, and many contemporary composers revisited techniques of the baroque, like Bach and his ''kontrapunkt''...Stravinsky with ''pulchinella''..

The rush and fervor to discover new means and incorporate older ones led to a wealth of styles and innovations: Xenakis and his ''stochastic arborescences'', Scelsi and the very ''spectral'', Varese and his surrealistic winds and percussions, Schoenberg and dodecaphonic serialism, Stockhausen and electroacoustic concepts, aleatoric techniques, Boulez and his awesome ''Ritual in memoriam Bruno Maderna'', Messiaen and his transcript of bird songs for piano and so on.........
I think ''complexity'' in music is an essential means that will always resurface in one way or another if it needs to.

Apart from new electrical means, the 20th century has also brought us new visual capabilities. Much music has been specifically written for the screen. Some very complex sounds can go down easier if visually supported.

Music as a whole is a treasure chest, and each specific location, era or kind of technique is a part of that treasure that yields at least a few shining jewels

In 20th century music, I particularly admire Stockhausen for his ideas and methods:

I think now we have reached a threshold where anything's possible but is there anything new? Do we need anything new or just inspiration?

There's more to music than the top 100 or commercial genres and artists, those may be cool, but thanks to on line technology, we can quickly discover other musical talents like on Soundcloud
Last thing, remember that some of the greatest hits or compositions were sometimes unintentional or discovered inadvertently or even by mistake. Sometimes it is the creating and experimenting or that small idea that decides on the outcome of a work

Here is one of my ''modern'' not too complicated tracks played with a usb keyboard using various Kontakt instruments: the human bone flute ''kangling'', brass from Spitfire audio, ivory piano, Projectsam strings and put together in a DAW:




Of all the ''modern'' composers I heard, Schoenberg can be for me one of the most uncomfortable at times, it can feel rushed and lively in a way I don't like or musically disturbing. There is also some ''Free-style'' Jazz I can't stand.

 

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8 hour korean opera

 

but another remark: sometimes making complicated stuff is easier then making a simple but effective track. i guess that made the Beatles so successful with their campfire style songs

 

how yours can hearing the 'complicity' of a track?

 

Totally agree. I spent 2 years learning this wonderful piece of music and even then i know i gave it no justice

 

For Classicals = Academic-based Dissonancy and virtuosity
For Jazzers = Harmonic and melodic complexity and fast instrumentalism
For Rockers = Rhythm and Soloing
For Poppers = Lyricism and Vocalism
For Electro-technicians = Sound Designing
.
.
.
Some people live with the complexity and for them adoration means collapsing inwards and getting captivated by listening to their intended charming complexities. And I don't know this is a good way of dealing with the music or not?

 

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Think it was around 1993... Never heard anything like this earlier. It felt like entering a portal in space where the sleeping mind woke up. The sounds, layers, filters, melodies, tempo, the uniqueness, the technique, but most of all the thinking out of the box creativity. Stuff like this didn't exist at all only a year earlier.

At the time it was the most "complex" piece of music I heard. Complex as in technically and musically awesome... or something in that direction.

Remember - this was times where we had like Rick Astley and other crap like that 24/7 on MTV.

 

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I am a drummer first and foremost. And for my exams (drums & percussion / improvising musician /jazz composition) in '89 I chose to play this piece. The first part on a drumset I made from pans, pots and a washtub, cymbals out of waiting trays. The second part on regular kit with the conservatorium band.
I did well, I graduated MCL. This wasn't complicated music. Even though it was in many other ways and many other layers. As it still haunts me today that the entire video recording of the event was lost in a fire of my house (along with most of my then gear . .) in '93.
It was complicated to convince my drum teacher that this was, what I wanted. It was even more complicated to convince some of my co-students to participate in my idiocracy.
Zappa's music is not complicated, trying to reproduce some of it faithfully, live for a graduation and exam, is.
So. Where do we find complexity in music? In the amount of notes played in the amount of chaos or disorder? In the perhaps strange tonality and time signatures? I don't know. In its timbre which subjectively brings an eiree feeling about perhaps, or perhaps it is out of our league and out of our physical capability ?
Is it pretty subjectively if you ask me, because perhaps we are from western culture and not Indian or Arabic. So we count mainly in fours and have a hard time finding our way around quarter notes and geneoui beats? Complicated almost spells out what we have a hard time
comprehending, dealing with at the time of ingestion. At the same time it doesn't.
It is complicated to listen to an hour of Kay Perry if you don't like it. It is complicated to listen to James Blake's silences when you don't
understand where he's coming from...
And there's the point; understanding, in one form or another. Music itself is as far from complicated as is an egg from the moon.
It is bound by a set of rules, regardless continent, language or tonality. It is us pushing hard on its boundaries that bring about the
sense of complexity to the perceiver. And rightly so. Music can be complex within the set rules, it can be without.

Its music.

Luiz.

 

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I'm not joking, try listen to it. So complicated, out of my scales, and the lenght.. at least I tried it once

 

1- What's the relation between the complexity and beauty? The more complicated, the more beautiful? or beauty is sth around the balance?

2- The complexity has to be emphasized or the beauty?

3- Why should a complicated music be made at all? For the listeners or manifesting the personal mightinesses?

Making a complicated music needs more time and no warranty to be welcomed fervently.

 

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The thing with complexity and beauty of sound and scales is mostly in with you when you grow.. I myself admit that I dont get korean feelings/scales, but i'm not korean either. I still try to grow on music wise. Sound is what matters to me the most

 

The best answer in my opinion.
To give some example of metal music, I will say most of the progressive metal music follows the same path Schoenberg invented.

To give an example of a complex rhythmic song I will say the Planet X band:

 

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No offense... The question is how did you discover that the sound is more important for you? Doesn't mean if you could play music well enough, you wouldn't select it as your first pick?

All of us have capabilities in sth and zero in on it for a long time and neglect other aspects. This negligence costs arms and legs in the future when a considerable length of time is lost. If we could have a good plan for learning in a well-balanced form, maybe nothing remains complicated.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2018

Beauty is complex.

 

Without any doubt, "Trio" and their "Da da da". This thing is beyond any Jazz or Funk and extremely deep. Their contribute to music is so immense. /s

It is just so... remarkable.