Can you suggest a good read, former thread here or elsewhere, personal advice for mixing low end kick & bass in electronic genres to update my formula?
Thx in advance

 

Top-notch Monitoring, acoustic treatment, DAC.
Reference tracks.
High quality plugins and/or hardware.
Analyzers, meters, ears.

It's starting point for proper mixing and good mastering.

 

https://www.samplecraze.com/product/low-end/ and their sister vod site https://theaudioproductionhub.pivotshare.com/categories/low-end/10035/media

 

This was a very enlightening video. I don't really do electronic music, so I can't tell you how it'd work there, but in rock/pop/metal mixing, it's a great starting point. You could tweak it a bit later on in the mixing process, but for most of low end balancing, this does the trick.

You will need a VU meter, and this one is free: TBProAudio mvMeter 2

 

@mercurysoto, that is indeed a good starting point.
I also use referencing against a track that heads in the same directions as you'd like your mix to go. Also what's been very helpful to me (albeit tedious) is checking in different systems. For example, my subs in my truck provide a better idea of where exactly the bottom end is in relation to other professional mixes than my current monitoring environment does. There's a bit of back and forth, but essentially it will teach you what to shoot for in your room.

 

Speaking of referencing, I have been made to listen attentively to the work of Kevin Shirley a.k.a. the Caveman. His kick drum is always in your face, nevermind how busy your mix gets.

If you listen to his work on redoing the mixes on Led Zeppelin's live record How the West Was Won, he does a great job at giving Bonzo's drums a fresh, modern sound without losing the 60 year old Zep sound that we all love and praise:

Compare it to the 70s era mix of The Song Remains The Same:

To achieve a piercing kick drum that doesn't get buried at all, the kick drum needs different treatment at different moments of the mix. Sometimes more EQ, sometimes more compression/gain riding at points, sometimes another layer. Before noticing Shirley's work, I'd let a kick drum get buried in the mix as the nature of it, not anymore.

 

Last edited: Jan 15, 2018

What is your present formula, the one you feel needs tweaking?

 

Just wanna know what’s working to get that ooomph ...right stomp.
I used to cut milliseconds out of the bass the moment the kick got its peak back then, the used some sidechaining, which is not really my alley I think, cause I like it when the kick & bass are married, not if 1 half is buried.
So try to get both in different frequency spectrum in the lower end, try to eq out some stuff in the kick, boost same frequencies formerly cut in the kick, actually playin around, as good as its possible with phones, was easier on monitors

 

No offense but HFS!
Maybe it's my personal aversion to completely unnecessary long videos, but, without devaluing the statement, what's shown in over 9 boring minutes can be expressed in 4 seconds in one sentence: adjust the rms level of bass and bd at the same value. Period. How difficult is this?
And btw, no VU Meter needed at all. Every level meter with rms display will do.

 

Maybe Multiband-Sidechain?

 

Have you tried flipping the phase of your kick and or kicks one by one? Sometimes it's just that the kick is out of phase and instead of adding oomph, it takes it away by canceling fundamental frequencies.

 

that might help as well:

 

For metal, in songwriting sometimes I hear my track finished without having any bass guitar. How can I write and mix bass guitar without ruining my song or adding new distraction from my purpose in the song? Actually, adding it for not adding to the song but just to be there?

 

Buy a Subpac, it's really give you precision for everything under 150hz, since I got one it change my life (and all my mix work well in club situation now, at least on the low end). The bonus thing is that you can work on bass during the night without annoying people next room.

If you got the opportunity to test it, just do this to see how good it is : take a big with lot of sub (like a big room kick or an 808) and play a low sine on a synth at the same time as the kick (like sylenth, or any synth that allow you to move the phase of the synth). Then move the phase of the sine until it's on phase with your kick. If you do that with just speaker, you'll not ear anything, with just a sub in a non treated room, it will be hard to see the difference, but with the subpac, you'll feel the exact spot where the kick and sine are in phase.

Then for every bass, if you don't want to use a sidechain, you can do this phase trick for every note that hit at the same time as the kick (I do that with an automation on the phase, so every note is in phase when the kick hit). It's kind of a long process but really easy with a subpac and really effective for electronic music. The best thing is to use a sine just for the low and cut everything bellow 80hz on the bass synth (and everything above 150 on the sine) like this you can really work on your sub/kick issue without dealing with other harmonic, and without changing your lead sound

 

I have to have 8-inch drivers as anything smaller I find apart from PMC's monitors which use the very clever ATL (Advanced Transmission Line) design just do not give me enough detail to operate with in order to easily hear the difference between the kick drum and the bass guitar clash and mask one another.
I really didn't expect the extra inch of driver to do so much when I decided to update from a set of Adam AX7A to AX8A as my main stereo pair but it really has made a difference that to me is not insignificant.
I can say that the person I work with the most and my closest friend had the exact same experience when he moved up to a pair of Yamaha HS-8 monitors from either a pair which were packing either a 6.5" or 7" driver, His mixes improved immediately as he can really hear the detail at the area where kick and bass guitar interact for better or worse.
Maybe some can and have gotten around that problem using a sub, I'm just not personally a sub type as they can cause as many problems as they can potentially fix. I use a kind of odd configuration with the AX8A as my main stereo pair, I also deploy a more expensive Adam in the center where a stereo pair form the phantom center, I find it great for when I switch to monitoring in mono, It really has helped me to identify anything that is a liability phase wise and see to it, Granted my setup and technique is not one I have seen or heard promoted as good practice but honestly, If you find something which works for you then just run with it and never let anyone tell you that it is wrong or stupid, Since they are not you and have a different space with which to work with and different tools which they find serves them just fine.
I suppose it could be said that I have the reverse of what many engineers call a mono grotbox. I obviously do not have the center placed monitor running at the same volume or even close when using my stereo pair since it would reek havoc with the low end and ruin the phantom middle, It is taken care of via a simple monitor switching device.
I also deploy mid/side or sum/difference processing whilst mixing and have done before it became incorporated into a lot of plug-ins, That has just made things easier for me with it becoming a feature that many developers began incorporating into their plug-ins, So I would also recommend making the most out of such as it can really help in getting a really solid low end and also additional control of the stereo width of any elements within your mixes that have information that you want to spread across the stereo field you have to work with.
So in a nutshell being able to hear it and identify the issues are the majority of the battle
The advice which has already been given by fellow forum members I will not repeat, I will just say that it is all solid advice and should help anyone achieve control of their low end in order to deliver the results you want from it and get rid of the stuff you really do not want showing up.

All the best to all as always

 

Add distortion to your bass line, and make it sound like your guitars so that the bass is just an extension of the guitar frequencies, cutting the highs that might clash with your guitar sound. Of course, you'd have to play it to double the guitar riffs note for note, but an octave lower.

 

@metaller in addition to what mercurysoto said you can separate the lows and low mids with eq. Guitar lowcut at lowest note e or b 160 or 120Hz, bass lowcut e or b 80 or 60Hz, bd 80 or 60 down to 40Hz. You can cut or shelf the guitar a bit higher to give the bass more space. And try to separate the high mids of bass (growling) from bd kick sound.

 

Of course everything really depends on everything else for a good and balanced mix, and sometimes the highlight of one vector of the frequency spectrum, however if one would like to bring up low end profile, a classic move of many engineers and producers choice of either tracking with a Neve or Neve inspired circuit or pushing it through during the mix has the tendency of letting the bass blossom. There is nowadays plenty to try out in software offerings to see if solution is right for you.

 

That's probably got I lot to do with why I love Acustica Gold so much.

 

could you explain this for a 'dummy' ( i.e. me)
i still don't understand the terminology : 6]