lol that's only on the master, and you definitely don't export tracks that clip... do you?
If you export when that indicator is shown you might have to reconsider everything you've learnt until now.

Besides, who the fuck clips the master lmao

 

A few seconds of startpage "research"

http://www.audiomasterclass.com/newsletter/which-daw-sounds-best

http://masters-of-music.com/proof-that-all-daws-sound-the-same-video/

 

Last edited: Nov 22, 2017

Provided that all DAWs these days operate on an internal 64-bit float summing engine, they all should sound like the same. But at the end of the day they don't.

The only thing that can affect the overall (Master output) sound in different ways are the panning laws. For instance, Logic let's you pick from 0dB, -3dB and -3dB Compensated. Ableton, if I'm not wrong, operates with -6db as default and there's no option to change this without using workarounds.

So what does this mean?

Well, if you mix a project in Ableton and move it to Logic using the 0dB pan law, it's going to sound warmer because 0dB eliminates constant-power panning, and gives that old school, center-channel-louder effect.
Same goes with -3dB (Left 0dB, Centre -3dB, Right 0dB), except here Centre channel drops by 3dB, this, depending on your mixing levels, can introduce distortion to the signal.
The -3dB Compensated (Left +3dB, Centre 0dB, Right +3dB) will be even more noticeable. If you go opposite ways, and bounce from Logic to Ableton, your mixdown will sound softer. This effect gets even more noticeable if you're using mono tracks.

Taking into account the previous example, DAWs can sound "different" but it's not a sound quality matter here. As you may notice, the phase cancellation test can't address this because the signal is processed internally according to the pan law of the DAW's engine. This means that any changes will be equal to all channels. However, your ears will notice the difference because the way that the output is presented to you have changed from one DAW to another.

If you want to change the Pan-Laws in Ableton, there's a way to do it with racked utility devices. Search for Wyatt Agard on Ableton's site, the racks are free for download.

 

One little thing to think about: have you taken in account that DAWs can also calculate metering differently? So that's where the visual/metering difference might come from? I know for a fact that Reaper shows different dB values for tracks than Cubase.

 

The ones I use seem to be pretty close

16 is 16-bit deep sine loop with "clicks" @-0dB; 32 = 32 float of same, but (showing) +.3db
(for reasons known only to gol, Fruity Loops has no peak hold, but you can sorta see it from the meters)

 

Even if there are differences, who cares really, wont make or break your mix.
Cubase metering is correct and corresponds to all the loudness standards, etc, some daws indeed have issues with the correct metering.

 

DAWs are different from one another similar to how two plugins are different from one another. They are different products with their own mathematical flaws and benefits that effect their ability to read and handle digital mediums. EQ plugins for example are responsible for interacting with the DAW similar to how the DAW is responsible for interacting with the OS and the audio device. EQ plugins are loaded on a channel in the DAW. They can all be set flat but they differ in variables such as latency, resource handling, how prone they are to aliasing, etc. which does effect sound to a degree. This can have a collective impact on things like dynamic perception, color, and transparency.

Well, each DAW can be viewed as a plugin loaded up on channel Windows or Mac. Each interacts with the OS differently.. The traces of different math are evident. They are prone to drawing different latency figures from the same audio device. On to the computer they are prone to interact with cpu, graphics, and ram differently. Again, can have a collective impact on dynamic perception, color, and transparency.

With the rate of human error and fix after fix, the notion the math is 1:1 the same across DAWs given all they have to interact with before an end result is reached is insane. It's nothing surprising to hear about fixes and updates.. "such n' such DAW" fixed random dropouts when.. random noise when.. latency error.. incorrect value.. blah blah. It goes on and on. It shows a DAW can even be different than it's own last version in a way that effects the "analog" you are actually hearing from your speakers.

People who render their mixes/masters internally often play their stuff back in iTunes and don't like what they hear as much as they do when they play it in their DAW. It's Because iTunes interacts with the OS, computer resources, and converter in it's own way as well. That's why it's best to record mixes/masters externally to ensure the sum of the workload (cpu, ram, graphics/read speed) stays the same and doesn't have to diminish by adding a shared write task to the "mathematical" equation. Recording the analog out (what you hear) with an independent device is the closest you can get to retaining what you hear.

 

Last edited: Nov 22, 2017

It all makes perfect sense now

 

Was trying not to mention mastering out of fear of furthering another argument that has been ongoing but, you are right.

Anyone working on product that will be mixed and mastered should be considering how tracks are created. BS in, BS out.
This applies in and out of the box.

 

Dude the example was not about who and why there may be clipping
@Lambchop Well, i do know the math, the thing is for many years i felt that they do sound different, meaning the algorithm didn't work quite as expected from daw to daw. So i took my own good old 40 ch test on 6 different daws, all latest stable versions. Cubase Pro, Sonar Platinum, Studio One, Reaper, Ableton Live and FL Studio. And fk me sideways, blimey the exports sound identical. I checked all possible dual combinations between the various exports of the same 40 ch multitrack. Each time rev phase on one of the two files, the outcome was complete silence.
Therefore the floating point algorithm works everywhere exactly the same and all DAWS DO sound the same when flat audio is rendered.
Any sane person with some dignity has to give credit where they ought to, so i admit to stand corrected and thanks for this. Sometimes i may get stuck to opinions and notions of a past era, and it may take another person to transfer me to reality
Cheers

 

What you did taskforce makes the most sense and is without a doubt the real proof, in my book at least.

However, projects made in different DAWs can sound different if you make the same project from scratch in them. I hope this sounds sane, too. ;) What some people here claim is a bit on the "audiophile" side... which can even be contributed to DAW colour schemes, indeed. Human mind works in strange ways and we shouldn't trust it 100%. It can be tricked easily by many things. Just watch some stuff on Youtube about it. There's a BBC doco about it. Incredible stuff.

On some forum, I think GS, I read about a guy who claimed he could hear when a WAV is played from different hard disks [including SSDs]. I mean... And the guy was a bit older, too, so not really a "bat"...

Cheers!

 

Last edited: Nov 22, 2017

$100 to whoever can post some facts and proof they can hear difference (in the real world, not imaginary)

 

Many people here base their opinions on a phase cancellation test that returns silence when there are other things involved that are outside the range covered by that test's diagnosis. It's not just about how the engine sums the signal. It's about how it handles it.

If you mix a 40+ tracks project in Ableton and import the very same project onto Logic, it will most likely sound different. And here I'm talking about raw audio. This difference will tend to be more noticeable the more tracks your project has and the bigger the overall dynamic range is. A high count of mono tracks will accentuate the difference even further.

It's common sense that if you mix a project in a DAW that uses a -6dB pan-law and import the very same project into a DAW that uses a -3dB Compensated pan-law it will sound different. If you left close to none headroom, your project will most likely have distortion when you play at the DAW that uses the -3dB pan-law because the signal is handled in a different way.
This varies from DAW to DAW. For instance, Ableton on it's 6th installment didn't even had a pan-law. This means that there was no difference between centre (mid) and side channels. The signal was treated equally. Nowadays it uses a -6dB if I'm not mistaken. Logic on the other hand let's you pick from several options.
So if you do it the opposite way and bounce a project from Logic using a 0dB pan-law into Ableton (-6dB), your overall mix will sound a lot softer and you'll probably be thinking something along the "damn, Ableton's audio engine sucks" lines.
However, math wise, you can duplicate all the tracks and invert phases that the result will always be silence.

 

I'll be Honest with you, if anyone sais all Daws Sounds the Same, they either don't know what the're talking about or have poor ears,

besides the fact that i'm still at a young age, my ears are really really sensitive to the smallest changes,
i can still hear up to almost 18k 17k being something easy to hear, but 18k is there but not as clear as 17k...

Thanks to the Sister site i have access to almost all daws out there, Cubase 5 included...

and i have done a lot and when i say a lot it means a lot, weeks and weeks long research and tries,

i had tested the Sound quality of all Daws, and THERE IS A DIFFERENCE ...

unlike what most people say Digital is Digital and all Number, i tell you That's it not correct, if what you say it is true, then all Plugins will sound the same, All EQs will sound the same all compressor will sound the same, all Saturations, limiters harmonic exciters ect ect...

IT IS NOT TRUE, it depends on the Programmers, and what path they follow, i'm not an expert but i have a Blind trust in my ears, and i know what i'm talking about, and it is all Based on my personal Experience thoght,

anyway here is what i Think and what my personal experiences say,

Even Tho my main Daw for production is Fl Studio, i love that Daw and i use it almost everyday, it is at the bottom if my list,

Cubase Being at the Top
Then Followed By Reaper, and Logic Pro X and Pro Tools
Short after That Ableton,
Then after That (by a long shot) Fl Studio comes,

While Mixbus is somehow unique, i'd place it just below Cubase and it is somehow better than Pro Tools, and equivalent if not better to Reaper...

i'll Quote this, ""... Another thing is that Cubase sounds really good. And what I mean by that is that what you put into Cubase is what you get out. It’s not colored like other systems. I can tell straight away when somebody brings in a Logic track — I know exactly what it was recorded on... " Hans Zimmer,

i'm not comparing my Self to the Legend Zimmer, but as i said earlier i have a blind trust on what my ears are telling me...
also my research were done way before i discovered this, so i consider this as a confirmation.

 

No offesnse to you ,Hans or Cubase/Steinberg (It is my favourite daw). But if you pay me what Hans gets from Steinberg, or give me the Steinberg Software for free (like Hans), I tell you that Cubase is the ultimate shit just like Hans. And I even would go further and tell you that I can only make my sound exclusic with cubase, because it is so brilliant and sounds so much better than any other daw. This is a concept called advertising.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2017

Hans Zimmer/net worth is 90mil. He could probably buy Steinberg. I agree with his statement.

 

so you are saying rich people dont do advertising? Really? I mean really? Maybe it is differnt in my country. But here a lot of famous and rich people do advertising

 

Because you don't seem to get it. Every plug has a different algorithm where as the 32 bit floating point algorithm is absolute. Getit? There isn't many versions of it. I did argue that DAWs sound different because the algorithm doesn't behave the same in every DAW. Then i took 40 ch in 6 daws and... read my last post. Every render was identical. Nuff said.

 

I think that is a Von Steyr trolling style, in his serious but not serious tone. I mean, Yamaha bought Steinberg for about 28.5mil. So he's right. But surely Zimmer's posture about Cubase is all paid advertisement. Or a conspiracy among Germans lol. Also, 9 out of 10 times i saw him, he was mixing with Pro Tools. Perhaps he uses Cubase for the pre-production/writing stage.