I used HO's mic's together for months with VMS, they give lots of tonal variety IMHO. I also used HO mics with a CU-29 Copperhead, TLM 67 with solid results, today I still reach for HO's mic's at times with my Horch Rm2J and Brauner VM-1.

 

I was an early adopter of the VMS last year and this was my review and some responses on GS to my review and feeling on the VMS system.

I've owned VMS for 6 months now, I've used it on a bunch of songs and I'm just now in a position to give my review. First know that I sold several mid level mic's when I picked up the VMS system and I felt the VMS could do what they do very well. The concept of the VMS is really amazing and I wanted the VMS to be the end all solution for me for vocals, but after using it for a while, my end results on bright singers was not to my satisfaction, as I found after you use the preamp plugins and plugin compressors I was unsatisfied with the end results as the top end could sound brash or hard and not natural sounding. I tried Nebula/Acqua mics and comp too, but no matter the combinations on sibilant singers I could not get the results I was after. I've used many high end mic's and I've tracked some of the finest singers in some of the finest studio's in the U.S., so I have a very strong background on which to base my VMS opinions.

So after months of use, using all the different plugins and VMS, I knew what I needed for the bright singers and I purchased 2 very high end mic's, a Horch RM2J and Brauner VM1, with a DW Fearn VT1 and Chandler RS124 combo. In direct testing the VMS was not able to deliver the top end smooth clarity or size of the tube mic's, the RM2J sounded stunning and never sibilant, and HUGE, with instant world class results.

Yes I'm comparing a 1K VMS against a 12K chain as this is what we do in testing, you want to be the best so we test against the best, which is what i did. Yes, I know the VMS does not have any RM2J, VM1, VT1 or RS124 plugins, but I was after real world end results, not a bunch of excuses so DO NOT respond to my post with unprofessional nonsense to justify your purchase. Be professional, test for yourself as I did, then return here and post your opinions.

So these are my VMS feelings after real world use and testing.

Advantages of VMS:
1. Best bang for the buck mic/preamp in history.
2. Only cost $1K.
3. Ability to try out different mic voicings later.
4. Quiet and detailed.

Disadvantages of VMS:
1. It makes more back end work for the Engineer.
2. You never know while tracking how usable the vocals will be, especially with stacking, as all the processing is added later.
3. When stacking lots of vocal tracks, the processing builds up.
4. Can sound brash, hard and unnatural up top.


I would and will continue to recommended VMS to any young person looking for a quality mic, any person looking for their first mic, or any person wondering what type of mic to possible purchase for a particular voice, and possibly any Engineer in a writer tracking room situation that rips through many writers in a short time period. VMS, as a tool, strength is in those areas. It will take quite a bit of cash to replace the VMS, but the very high end gear IMHO does sound superior to VMS, but will cost you for it.

Steven has done a fantastic job of pushing the technology and I'm excited for his next product, I have no regrets buying the VMS and I wish there was a VMS back when I started, these young-ins have no idea how good they have it.

FWIW, I've privately talked to several other VMS owners, my opinions and results on VMS were confirmed by others with high end mic experience.

Response to my testing.

Here's how I approached my testing.
So let's say I was to be at Atlantic LA tonight and Interscope LA tomorrow night, I show up with my VMS ready to work.... will VMS get me return work or will they never hire me again, simple real world situation, where to be the best you go against the best at the highest level possible. In the end VMS is a mic, preamp, compressor combo Steven claims hangs with the best combos ever made. So I put my money up, buy what would be considered 2 world class mics that would get me return work in any major studio, one of the finest preamps and a modern comp, all more modern gear you could purchase today, and I test it against the VMS. Then I posted my test results and opinion, giving what I feel are honest valid Pro's and Con's for others to read. It was a real world high end test for the VMS, because at Atlantic and Interscope there is no room for good, only great.

To test the Slate VMS against any other competition would be laughable for me because that was the level I worked at, anything less would be disrespectful to Steven and his teams hard work. In the end the VMS hung in well and as I said it is "the bang for the buck" combo in mic history, it just falls a bit short against the top world class chains IMHO. I have confidence Steven will use my testing to make VMS2 even better, and he'll inch closer to the high end quality, one day at a time.

Response to tracking with VMS without compression.

Tracking with the VMS does take getting used to and it's not for everyone, my biggest issues tracking without a comp were:

1. Comps can bring so much flavor and tonal variety, with VMS that is gone from the chain.
2. Software comps just don't do what hardware comps do to sound energy. I beta test for Acustica Audio and their advanced IR comps seriously get close in their way, but it's still not the same as tracking through a quality hardware comp IMHO.
3. No printing a decision, everything comes later.... this adds to the Engineer workload. A song with over 50 vocal tracks will add hours of extra work come mix time. Using VMS did not speed up my workflow.

After using the VMS for a while, I returned to using a high end chain, Horch Rm2J, Fearn VT1, and Chandler RS 124. For me, tracking with a hardware comp brings more to the final recordings than I got with VMS using so much software.

In the end every one of us has to decide if the convenience of the VMS is more in line with our needs and goals, over what we may be loosing that our different hardware chains provide. As everyone has different gear and goals, that question can only be answered by each individual user, and testing both is the only way to know for sure.

These were my responses on a second VMS thread.

I respectfully disagree as I believe it is a true game changer. For $1K, you get a mic and preamp with many tone options that can IMHO, based on my testing, compete against all but the top level gear. There has never been a tool that can cover as much tonal ground as the VMS, and for so little money.

Steven's VMS is the #1 tool I would recommend for anyone coming into recording, still in their first few years that does not have access to quality recording gear, wants the best bang for their buck recording wise, has a writing studio where many different singers come through, or anyone wanting to get a good idea of what different mics sound best on them before they purchase an expensive mic.

While it was not the right tool for me and my needs, I helped someone buy one recently that it would be perfect for. It's a serious tool many will be using for many years to come.

I have nothing but respect for VMS as a tool, and I believe it is a game changer for pro audio, kids have it sooooo good these days.

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Yes Steven's work will be bringing options to the lower and mid level market for sure, and it will help many with tonal options in mic's that never had them before, or where they were very limited. The VMS is without a doubt "The" bang for the buck mic/preamp out now, but while my end results were good, they were not great, and for me and many other Pro's, "Good is the enemy of Great".

I've tracked in some of the top studios in NY, Atlanta and LA so I have a ton of my own work I can compare. The VMS final mixes did not deliver that high end vocal quality for me that I've gotten many times before, which honestly surprised me as all the online examples seemed close in sound. In testing and using it myself, I did find in real world use that as I stacked many vocal tracks with the VMS and then all the needed plugins for mic/preamp/compressors, the vocals were unnatural or hard sounding, especially up top on stacks. This frustrated me immensely, as it took until mix time to hear it because everything is applied post recording.

So I did what any Pro slut would do, I went out and purchased a high end chain, similar to what I used many times in top studios, to track vocals and compare to my VMS.

In testing my VMS against my Horch Rm2J/Fearn VT1/Chandler RS 124 chain, the results were that while the VMS allowed me to select different tonal varieties, the VMS was smaller and harder sounding, while the Rm2J had a clear size and natural beauty to it that the VMS tracks lacked. During mixdown, the Rm2J stacked tracks took EQ better and just never lost their natural sound, no matter how many vocal stacks there were. The final mix result was that the VMS vocals hardness came out even more with peak limiting where the Rm2J vocals stayed natural sounding no matter how loud I pushed the final mix.

Now understand it cost me 10K for the chain vs. the 1K VMS, and for some this will not be worth it, but for me and others it will be. We all have different needs and budgets.

Also, before anyone jumps in here talking about "VMS does not have an Rm2J model", I know this, but it does have 8 other models, and none of those 8 could beat my Rm2J chain. VMS is a tool, and as a tool for Pro's there is no excuse given in a real session..... either it is better tool for the task at hand, or it is not. IMHO, you do not speak of excuses ever in pro audio, quality tools always speak for themselves during real world use.

I can say after using the VMS for months in real working sessions, and after comparing it to a high end chain, for me the VMS was not the better tool. I'm sure for others it will be the better tool as we all have different tools we work with, and are after different results.

I do not attack Steven or his VMS because after spending time with it, I understand what it is and what it is not. The VMS will not stop anyone from making music, it will IMHO, allow more people to make more music as it brings more quality to that market segment. When I was 20, the VMS would have been a dream mic system for me, but I'm not 20 and now have over 30 thousand hours into my craft.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
So as you can read for my GS review and posts:
IMHO, VMS is one hell of a game changer "Bang for the Buck" at $1K and I've personally recommended about 15 VMS sales as for those people the VMS was the right tool for them.

As always, to each their own tools and opinions. I hope this lengthy information helps.

 

And he's back yet again... Dude just go work for Slate.

 

Yes, a great microphone. I have one that I like for all sorts of deep end stuff like djimbe, kicks, basses of all varieties and even acoustic guitars that are not primary and front and center. It is also a fantastic vocal mic and is a dream for those in not ideal rooms as it's reach is pretty much front and center of what is right in front of it's rather long nose. There is no proximity effect of which to speak and my vocals are always to my liking. I like it when I am singing and playing acoustic at the same time as I can isolate it as there is not much bleed. I use the null of my Gefell umt70s in figure 8 so both recorded tracks are fairly free of each other. The RE-20 is a great mic and well worth the coin.
Edit: As a rule I always buy microphones smaller than my schlong...

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2017

Hello.
Get an AKG C4000B, the silver one (not the recent black one, C4000 - it sounds dull). One of the best male vocal mics ever.
.

 

Stretch it to $699 and get a Neumann TLM102 and be done with it.
Get the original sound, not copycats.
Thank me later.

 

Last edited: Jul 11, 2017

No one has said it yet but the avantone series is amazing. The Cv12 is in your price range, the BV1 is also amazing, plus tons of mods for both.
check out microphone-parts.com as well for adding some extra flavor.
Also second for Advanced Audio, haven't used their new mics but built plenty of their kits when they use to sell them.

 

Thanks for the input. I don't feel so bad now that I let the VMS deal go by and didn't jump on it immediately.
I think maybe I'll get more bang for my buck by modding the MXL. Or maybe try to find someone who has a "shrill" MXL that I can get on the cheap, and mod that one since mine already sounds not so bad.
I appreciate the extensive info on the Slate VMS. This is exactly what I was looking for, an opinion from someone who would know what the "real deal" should sound like.

 

If you can grab an AKG 214 for that then I'd recommend as it has the same but single capsule as the 414, 314 and such, A proven type which I've got four of now as they are useful for the money.
I would not rule out a Shure SM7b which is not a LDC but is still perfectly suited to vocals and VO tasks, Same with Electro-Voice's RE-20, Another great large dynamic designed for the tasks you mention but both SM7b and RE-20 work on practically everything whereas alot of LDC's are useful for more specific tasks (Vocals, Depends if the mic suits the source voice or not, VO work, Kind of similar but not as much of an issue as suiting a lead vocal, Then onto drum overheads, room/distant ambient mics on drumkits and on cabs also but not up close, Whereas the SM7b and RE-20 sound great up close to as said practically everything).

Hope that helps, The affordable LDC market is a very crowded one, Audio-Technica amongst many others offer great models, I mentioned the AKG 214 as I'm very familar with it personally.

All the best and to all as always, Take care

Dean

 

Grow up and please do attempt to post something useful others can gain positive information from.

 

I still have my trusty old Studio Projects C1 (~$250) and Studio Projects VTB1 Microphone Preamp (~$200). Better than most microphones and preamps at twice the cost in my opinion. Many people swear you can get them modded for a couple hundred dollars to sound almost identical to a Neumann U87.

I would definitely recommend them over an Audio Technica or Rode microphone.

 

Lots of feedback adn replies, i do thank you all. SO much info to deal with.

Any thoughts on the AKG C314?

 

Sontronics STC-20 all the way,got everything you need in one bundle , price around 230€ , best mic in test

 

sE Electronics make some incredible mics for interesting prices
btw briefly jumped through previous commend of this thread, do avoid Neumann TLM102 or AKG C214, those are very mediocre mics for the price, if you wanted such high-end, then believe me TLM103 or C414 are entirely different story (but price goes higher as well)

 

Test them in real world, if you can : a singer and an array of mics, for the same take.
You will be surprised (like me) to find a 100 bucks mic better than a 500 bucks one...and close to a 1000 one :D
Depending on singer.

Not the same take, but very nice anyway :
https://www.sweetwater.com/feature/vocal-mic-shootout/
https://transom.org/2005/transom-studio-mic-shootout/

Same take :
http://bradfordswanson.com/mic/listen.html
http://recordinghacks.com/2010/03/31/voiceover-microphone-shootout/

 

A great choice/option in my opinion and experience, It is of course the newest of the x14 series and sits in between the 214 and 414 models, It offers alot of great quality that ought to last forever for the money.

It would not be money wasted

Hope that is useful/helps, I could write an essay on microphones I like and microphones I do not, However that'd be of course just my experience with them, Some models people swear by I just find not to work well for me but vice versa sometimes when it comes to models I swear by/friends/collegues do to usually. Especially when it comes to vocal duties, 314 is more than upto the task and has alot more flexability than the 214 model, Which means of course that you will get alot more use out of it when tracking stuff



Dean

 

I'm with you, I can talk microphones all day, lol. I've been blessed to use some pretty special microphones but I worked my up the mic list from super cheap crap mic's. In the end it's really all about the artist in front of the mic IMHO, a hit song is a hit song and NOBODY will care what mic was used on it, lol. From experience I an say a quality mic just makes the Engineer's job easier.

 

I guess this is a quality/price issue, so have you considered a second hand buy?

I have a few great mics I´ve bought second hand 1/2 to 1/3 of the original price.

 

the avantone cv12? really? You guys know the avantone cv 12 is a apex 460 similar chinese mic? - its the same cheap pcb layout like the badaxx t11. A friend of mine has the avantone and bought a badaxx to compared the pcb. He is quite sad since then lol. So if you want a C12 clone like the avantone get a cheap chinese tube mic and mod it, You get better results and a better mic for your money this way i bet. I doubt quality control even its important is that much more bucks worth.

sometimes lipstick on a pig and a hot comerical face works ;).

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2017

Sorry to cloud your troubled mind a bit further, but I just saw the offer on Massdrop (I have been a part of a few drops and can vouch for this outfit, I have bought stuff much less expensive than I would have otherwise) for the CAD M179 which is the duel diaphram version of the venerable E300, a mic that lots of folks swear by and feel hits waaaay above its price point. For only $149 each you could get two of them and have the ability to record mid/side stereo, L/R stereooruse them on two different instruments or drums at the same timeor as room mics for a drumset. I personally have never used one but I hear folks speak of "what you put in comes out the same", is almost whisper quiet at only 11db of self noise and even comes with a case. I don't need another LDC or might be tempted myself. Good luck on your quest.
Here is a comparison with an expensive Schoeps mic...