Incident at Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, UK

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by ned944, May 23, 2017.

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  1. beatmagnus

    beatmagnus Guest

    It became evident that weapons were being stockpiled again and ten years doesn't mean he became a good boy all of a sudden. Regardless of our ideas on this I must apologize for contributing to the political banter here. I'm just sad and angry about this recent tragedy...
     
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  2. Bunford

    Bunford Audiosexual

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    I shall award you a non-sarcastic and mature slow clap...
     
  3. Talmi

    Talmi Audiosexual

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    So evident that no evidence was found of what you claim ever since 14 years, depsite the country being occupied and searched from top to bottom....Go figure.:dunno:. And good boy or not (we could say that about many tyrans our leaders have daily business with), in regard to the international treaties there was no basis for an invasion, and today again one can peacefully but firmly say, like a lot of people said back then : "this invasion was illegal". Its consequences are cataclysmic. I don't know if it was moral or not, Saddam was an awfull tyran, but it was both illegal and a very poor decision, strategicly and politicaly speaking.
    I agree that's it's a very sad moment, not ideal to go in those debates, anger is a poor advisor but everyone in those circonstances has a right to be.
    More than anything no matter how one person chooses to look at this in terms of "how", "why", we all have in common to be profundly shocked and horrified when such devastating, unfair fate strikes people we feel close to, specially the young ones. Sharing our sadness is legitimate.
    We all have different perspectives on those matters (some don't have any, which is fair too), and in the heat of emotion and anger we are probably not going to arrive to a convergence of our different angles.
     
  4. smys

    smys Member

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    OK, do as you wish. What is alien to our existence and idiosyncrasies is kindness is not a universal concept, it is a philosophical will.
    And "before you whine on the misinterpretation and misappropriation of Islam", I do not know how to misinterpret the Koran (some examples taken by chance).

    The Qur'an is not a religion, it is a social ideology learned from an early childhood. There is no way to think differently, for this has only been learned:


    2 (sura or surata): 191 (chapter) - Kill them wherever you find them and drive them from where they expelled you, because the persecution is more serious than the murder. You do not fight them in the vicinity of the Holy Mosque, unless they attack you. But if they fight against you, kill them. Such will be the punishment of unbelievers.


    5:73 - Blasphemers are those who say: God is one of the Trinity, so there is no god apart from the One God. If they do not give up all that they say, a painful punishment will strike the unbelievers among them.

    5:82 You will find that the worst enemies of the faithful among the humans are the Jews and the idolaters. You will find that those who are closest to the affection of the faithful are those who say: We are Christians, because they have priests and are not proud of anything.

    7: 4 - How many cities have we destroyed? Our punishment took them (to their inhabitants) by surprise, while they slept at night, or took a nap.

    9:73 O Prophet, fight against unbelievers and hypocrites, and be merciless toward them. Hell will be your home. What a fateful fate!

    35:14 Call not today, for one destruction; Cry out also for many destruction!

    40:70 They are the ones who deny the Book and all that we send with our messengers. Soon they will know it!
     
  5. beatmagnus

    beatmagnus Guest

    In the spirit of friendly debate, there was enough intel to convince two world leaders that there were indeed stockpiles. Saddam was warned well in advance that we were coming to investigate so he had plenty of time to disperse the sites that were under observation. This is strategic cat and mouse. It also became clear more recently that places like Iraq were funding terrorist activities, ie attack on World Trade Centers. My point of view comes from military intel that has been disclosed and sources outside of the evening news. My concern is that if people can't understand the foundation of what causes an issue than we are doomed to further become victims. Nothing I've said is hateful but if debating something and reciting world history is considered "hate" we're definitely screwed.
     
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  6. Herr Durr

    Herr Durr Guest

    it's not my language Sir Vülf ... it's Yiddish (Hebrew) one of the languages spoken , or formerly spoken, in Germany

    how dare you ... I resemble that remark, have no idea what it means...
    but how dare you anyway... :winker:
     
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  7. Pinkman

    Pinkman Audiosexual

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    This is becoming another one of those threads. I'm saddened by what happened and whatever reason it happened has zero weight to me compared to what actually did happen and the poor people who were affected.
    The thing about people is, oftentimes, they think they are things that they really aren't. Just like people call them selves producers or artists when their actions say otherwise.
    Same goes for so called "Christians" who practice violence. A true Christian would never condone violence. That goes for any being that focuses themselves on love and enlightenment.

    I didn't want to bring this up before but since it's veered into the political, I feel obligated to say the timing, the date, the number and the act itself is a prime example of the sick nature of blood sacrifice. Does anyone here realize the last song in her set right before this happened?
    It's not about man. At all.
     
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  8. Yuri

    Yuri Rock Star

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    Really not the time for jokes about musical taste, an 8-year-old girl died ffs.
     
  9. Von_Steyr

    Von_Steyr Guest

    Trying to defuse this thread before it goes to hell, like these threads usually do.
     
  10. Talmi

    Talmi Audiosexual

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    There wasn't enought anything to convince anyone. The intels were boggus, it has been officialy recognized (at least in the UK, we'll have to wait a few decades concerning the US), the two world leaders you are refering just lied. It was shown too that Saddam didn't disband anything, because there was nothing to disband anymore. Which every one knew. Every one knows that Saddam funded terrorist activity, yeah, before the mid 80's and him and Khadafi paid fine regarding those actions, that were officialy put behind. For your intel, several saoudies citizens participated and funded 9/11, and guess with whom Trump was just having contract signing diner with those last 48h ?
    I don't know what intel you dispose of, but they all seem fake.
    No one wants anymore victim, I don't see how rewritting history will avoid victims. Nor do I see how having those talks here, even in the wake of this events, is going to prevent squat.
    The "why" it happened is usually just a back door to spread disinformation and move forward with political agendas, it's so obvious it's almost laughable.
    I wasn't refering to your post for the hatefull part, your post was just factually incorrect.
     
  11. arhythmtech

    arhythmtech Member

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    what song? what is it about?
     
  12. Bunford

    Bunford Audiosexual

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    Every faith is an ideology and principles you live by. That's the whole point of a religion! You not aware of the ten commandments and so on?!?! And the childhood bit is nonsense. People can convert to any faith they want at any point in life. Countries and rules don't own religions, people do. As you've clearly ignored the point and link I made for your own interests, for the sake of equality with the mainstream Western religion....

    Christian Bible:
    The Lord is a man of war. Exodus 15:3

    As there is too much for the rest, here you go: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/holywar.html

    Christian Bible:
    And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying ... he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:13-16

    Christian Bible:
    And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. Deuteronomy 2:34

    And for the plethora of others: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/genocide.html


    Christian Bible:
    "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." -- Dt.13:6-10

    And for the rest: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/nonchristians.html

    Christian Bible:
    "If a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you." -- Leviticus 20:14

    And the rest: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/burning.html

    Christian Bible:
    The terror of God was upon the cities that were round about them. - Genesis 35:5

    This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven, who shall hear report of thee, and shall tremble, and be in anguish because of thee. - Deuteronomy 2:25

    ... by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors....Deuteronomy 4:34

    And the rest: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/terrorism.html


    Christian Bible (and a bonus to stave off the common pedophilia rhetoric using by the uneducated):
    It's OK to have sex with "women children" that are obtained in war.

    It's OK to sell your daughter (no mention is made of age) to a man for him to use as a sex slave.

    And the rest: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/pedophilia.html


    However, I'm sure the usual nonsense of "yeah, but that's the Bible that was written centuries ago and Christianity clearly does't think like that and endorse that any more" will come out. Well, guess what? The same is true for the Quran!

    And even though I pointed it all out in an impartial, unbiased and helpful way, I've no doubt you won't even read the passages and simply keep on propogating this uneducated anti-Islam rhetoric. Shame. A real shame.
     
  13. Mr. X

    Mr. X Guest

    About 100 children has either been murdered or mutilated in a single hit. Some of you even make sick jokes about it in this thread. I'm so fkn disgusted by everything.
     
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  14. beatmagnus

    beatmagnus Guest

    How can you think this when your point is actually being debunked in real time through world events (referring to the military acting on false political agendas)? We'll see how well that logic holds up in the future as well.
     
  15. Mr. X

    Mr. X Guest

    @Bunford - point out where in the bible this is written. Looks to me that most of the crap you've pasted in your wall of text looks like wild stories no one ever heard of, pure lies and propaganda.
     
  16. Talmi

    Talmi Audiosexual

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    I don't know in what weird part of the universe my points are being debunked realtime.
    Yours however have been debunked all over the world like ten years ago.
    Today this universe is past "the invasion of Irak was illegitimate, illegal and a catastrophy" that point again is firmly acquired and no one has the strange idea of questioning it, today we are more like actually measuring how far exactly this huge mess is going to take us and how exactly we can try to at least marginaly fix things a bit, in opposition to go back in time and not do all those crazy actions, which, well, unfortunately we can't.
    And the genius plan back then, may I remind you, by the bright and great leader G.W.Bush was to export democracy to middle east. What a success this whole thing has been.
     
  17. DoubleSharp

    DoubleSharp Platinum Record

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    Alas I peruse the music conversations here regularly but often refrain from getting involved... Usually due to the stellar advice of many AS members.

    Young children (mainly girls) are dead. Deliberately targeted to inflict as much pain and long term suffering as possible.

    Yesterdays events are absolutely tragic. I would prefer a period of time to allow facts to surface regarding the terrorist attack rather than debating the whole geopolitical debate around fundamental Islamic Terrorism.

    Unfortunately we live in a world that never stops. No time for mourning, no time for thought. We're not accustomed to patience. Societies and individuals are both very quick to satisfy their needs.

    However, and I understand that I am known to be politically partisan (Which I do not apologise for. One breeds the other.) I implore anyone who wants to feel like they have some understanding of what the fuck is going on to read this opinion that has a reasonable amount of historical info to boot....

    http://www.newstatesman.com/world-a...-arabia-exported-main-source-global-terrorism

    Okay it might not be the correct side to be your particular type of rag. It's not about blame. It's a set of situations ... But it provides a reasonable historical context to the proliferation of Radical Islamic Terrorism.
     
  18. Herr Durr

    Herr Durr Guest

    @Bunford.. at least Christianity by this time has distanced itself from using dogma as an excuse for mass slaughter..
    and I never once saw a Christian stone anyone in my life... either in person or in the news... Have seen and heard plenty of accounts
    of Islamists executing people in all sorts of ways, and I mean other muslims, never mind us infidels,

    For us who love music...it adds an extra level of evil.. to kill kids.. young girls.. who haven't had a chance to really
    take on any evil ideology, who were simply out enjoying their freedom, to have FUN watching a musical show...

    Sad day for England..and sad awful day for all of us who want to enjoy the freedom to go and see artists perform live
    ( or any other innocent event for that matter ), last I heard... music itself is haram in Islam, which is why
    you only hear them chanting suras or whatever.. talk about hating life ?
     
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  19. beatmagnus

    beatmagnus Guest

    Finally we agree. Nobody secured the radicals properly so they spread like wildfire and now this has become more than just a middle east problem. This has less to do with any mess Bush created because jihads have been going on in Sweden longer than anything and they are the most passive country. This has to do with radical idealogy bent on converting the world to their way of thinking by any means necessary. Bush is a great scapegoat though.
     
  20. Bunford

    Bunford Audiosexual

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    The links and passage references and there right in front of your seemingly blinkered eyes.

    Love how you refer to them as "wild stories, pure lies and propaganda" though, even though they are all passages from the Christian Bible. Kind of demonstrates my point perfectly with your blinkered anti-Islam rhetoric, which are equally "wild stories, pure lies and propaganda" from the original Quran without me even needing to say anything :rofl:
     
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