@MMJ2017 I was hoping for a good debate but as I can see that I couldn't tell you well. You are asking me, "so you believe in something , for which you dont know anything about?" I said I read his book and he creates everything. How can you think that I know anything?
I said "It's eventually everyone's own journey", because if there's a book and you really wonder it's fiction or not, you must read it. Do you read them or you just ask people who red it? I say it's written by God, somebody says it's not. If you're really seeking the truth, you must read it. My friendly advice is, read more to investigate and less talk with people. Stick with the concept, not the people. That's all I wanna say.

 

Humans need to differentiate between fact and fiction, but words mean something even when that thing can not be real or proven by any measurable means. If Mr. Kloud says he wants to believe something because he has faith in it, that is true at least to him.

You and I do not agree might not agree with him that there is an invisible super powerful creature that loves everyone, the birthed himself in belly of some Jewish woman and died, came back, but was still his own father and himself at the same time and that even through live it will still burn people in a fire if they do not love him back. We can not deny that he feels this faith if he does nor not. His words means something to him, just like when I say... I love my dog, I love my wife, I love my children, I can not prove this love in any material way... but it does exist to me.

Translators help but there are small points where it is very hard to communicate a small idea because languages are different still and the machine just translates the words not always the meaning. I can not even read Chinese so even if the translator give me a smiple idea of what is being said it does not give me the detail.

 

How do you explain the prophecies of the bible that have been fulfilled and are still being fulfilled to this day? Have you ever given God a real chance? have you genuinely laid down all opinions and studied the word of God and asked him to come into your heart and reveal himself to you with out your past or current beliefs getting in the way?..No one is born believing or disbelieving in God.. But when I see murderers and all manner of despicable people being genuinely changed and are now a positive influence of the lives of others and are fighting against every ungodly thing in the world to save other men and women from a life of sin then I Know there is a God.. a God that allowed his only Son to die for you in hopes that you would be saved..God is calling you and anyone reading this today to repent and turn away from your sins.. The God of heaven who commands the stars and everything in creation Loves you and hopes above all that you be saved... Give the one true God a chance..Praying for all who may read this...be blessed and make dope music peace !!!

 

mrfloyd
@MMJ2017
For the fun of it I'll give my answers to your "ultimate" questions:

>> what is god made of?
God is made of consciousness

>> where is god located?
Everywhere, universes appear within his/her consciousness

>> what is it like in the day in life of god?
It is still going on

>> what is the soul made of?
Consciousness

>> what are the parts of the soul?
There are no parts, there is only illusion of the same soul appearing as separate within individuals

>> how does the soul connect to the brain?
It permeates through the brain

>> if god or the soul has no body what keeps it together?
Power of imagination, while it lasts the creation is his/her body

>> these are things that would be known if person stated gods souls and afterlives are real based on anything besides " i dont know"
There you have it ;-)





MMJ your answers are more ambiguous than the questions! you told us nothing! see what you did what called "make shit up" or fiction for short.



mrfloyd Can you prove that it is a fiction?



MMJ o back and read my response it demonstrates that you made fictional propositions





mrfloyd I did and your response was: "your answers are more ambiguous than the questions! you told us nothing! see what you did what called "make shit up" or fiction for short."
This statement doesn't prove that my answers are fiction it only states that, but if you can't elaborate I'll understand.






MMJ


" that is the distinction between fiction and reality or to be more precise fiction vs non-fiction. I want to be very clear there is a such thing as fiction. In this specific situation I am referring to fiction being any thought ,concept, idea, proposition or statement which cannot demonstrably be shown to be true in the context of reality. In fact fiction is the vast majority of thoughts, ideas, concepts, propositions, and statements and the tiny minority are ones that can be demonstrably shown to be true in reality,

Why is this important at all in any way?

Because there is a way human beings actually work regarding our thought process and our minds. our thoughts are made of words and symbols which are virtual not real , so for any meaning to be there, we have to be talking about those symbols representing something and reality is what the words are supposed to represent. next we human beings are stuck in a subjective experience of spending each moment inside of our mind, we are capable of misunderstanding and not accounting for all details of a situation which leads to fictional or false propositions ideas and thoughts statements. Reality is outside of us. In order for us to utter words strung together in a meaningful way those words have to accurately be describing that outside reality. in order for that to take place we have to have demonstrable evidence , meaning we have to test and probe reality to see what the answer is to a question then we can formulate a thought about how things actually work or what exists in reality.

This means when it comes to the topic of how can a thought, idea, concept or proposition EVER be true. It can only be true IF we have demonstrable evidence or data from reality itself that we form a proposition or thought based on in order to talk about how things actually work or what exists outside of our experience which is subjective."






mrfloyd Can you prove that it is a fiction?





MMJ go back and read my response it demonstrates that you made fictional propositions






am·big·u·ous
amˈbiɡyo͞oəs/
adjective
adjective: ambiguous
(of language) open to more than one interpretation; having a double meaning.
"the question is rather ambiguous"
unclear or inexact because a choice between alternatives has not been made.
"this whole society is morally ambiguous"
synonyms: equivocal, ambivalent, open to debate/argument, arguable, debatable; More





mrfloyd
@MMJ2017
For the fun of it I'll give my answers to your "ultimate" questions:

>> what is god made of?
God is made of consciousness
ambiguous
(of language) open to more than one interpretation; having a double meaning.
"the question is rather ambiguous"
unclear or inexact because a choice between alternatives has not been made.
"this whole society is morally ambiguous"
synonyms: equivocal, ambivalent, open to debate/argument, arguable, debatable; More
>> where is god located?
Everywhere, universes appear within his/her consciousness

>> what is it like in the day in life of god?
It is still going on
ambiguous
(of language) open to more than one interpretation; having a double meaning.
"the question is rather ambiguous"
unclear or inexact because a choice between alternatives has not been made.
"this whole society is morally ambiguous"
synonyms: equivocal, ambivalent, open to debate/argument, arguable, debatable; More

>> what is the soul made of?
Consciousness
ambiguous
(of language) open to more than one interpretation; having a double meaning.
"the question is rather ambiguous"
unclear or inexact because a choice between alternatives has not been made.
"this whole society is morally ambiguous"
synonyms: equivocal, ambivalent, open to debate/argument, arguable, debatable; More

>> what are the parts of the soul?
There are no parts, there is only illusion of the same soul appearing as separate within individuals
ambiguous
(of language) open to more than one interpretation; having a double meaning.
"the question is rather ambiguous"
unclear or inexact because a choice between alternatives has not been made.
"this whole society is morally ambiguous"
synonyms: equivocal, ambivalent, open to debate/argument, arguable, debatable; More

>> how does the soul connect to the brain?
It permeates through the brain
ambiguous
(of language) open to more than one interpretation; having a double meaning.
"the question is rather ambiguous"
unclear or inexact because a choice between alternatives has not been made.
"this whole society is morally ambiguous"
synonyms: equivocal, ambivalent, open to debate/argument, arguable, debatable; More

>> if god or the soul has no body what keeps it together?
Power of imagination, while it lasts the creation is his/her body

ambiguous
(of language) open to more than one interpretation; having a double meaning.
"the question is rather ambiguous"
unclear or inexact because a choice between alternatives has not been made.
"this whole society is morally ambiguous"
synonyms: equivocal, ambivalent, open to debate/argument, arguable, debatable; More
>> these are things that would be known if person stated gods souls and afterlives are real based on anything besides " i dont know"
There you have it ;-)

 

Last edited: Apr 21, 2017

mrfloyd
@MMJ2017
For the fun of it I'll give my answers to your "ultimate" questions:

>> what is god made of?
God is made of consciousness

how is something MADE OF consciousness?



>> where is god located?
Everywhere, universes appear within his/her consciousness

where is the consciousness located? that is the question!


>> what is it like in the day in life of god?
It is still going on
what is it like TO BE god in the day in the life OF god?


>> what is the soul made of?
Consciousness

how can something be made OF consciousness?




>> what are the parts of the soul?
There are no parts, there is only illusion of the same soul appearing as separate within individuals
how does that work by which forces? ( how can you say that is what is happening vs something lese happening?)



>> how does the soul connect to the brain?
It permeates through the brain
how does it does that? how do you know that is what it is doing vs another thing?



>> if god or the soul has no body what keeps it together?
Power of imagination, while it lasts the creation is his/her body
how does the imagination able to keep it together ?





>> these are things that would be known if person stated gods souls and afterlives are real based on anything besides " i dont know"
There you have it ;-)

 

"How do you explain the prophecies of the bible that have been fulfilled and are still being fulfilled to this day? Have you ever given God a real chance? have you genuinely laid down all opinions and studied the word of God and asked him to come into your heart and reveal himself to you with out your past or current beliefs getting in the way?..No one is born believing or disbelieving in God.. But when I see murderers and all manner of despicable people being genuinely changed and are now a positive influence of the lives of others and are fighting against every ungodly thing in the world to save other men and women from a life of sin then I Know there is a God.. a God that allowed his only Son to die for you in hopes that you would be saved..God is calling you and anyone reading this today to repent and turn away from your sins.. The God of heaven who commands the stars and everything in creation Loves you and hopes above all that you be saved... Give the one true God a chance..Praying for all who may read this...be blessed and make dope music peace !!!"





question if i wrote on a forum " the water will fall from the sky!"

76 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours and 23 minutes later it rains and a person sees that sentence at that same moment is the person justified saying that a prophecy has been fulfilled?




"Have you ever given God a real chance?"

would you consider the entire history of mankind testing and probing reality to see what the answer is a chance?
(if not, what qualifies as " a real chance"



"have you genuinely laid down all opinions and studied the word of God and asked him to come into your heart and reveal himself to you with out your past or current beliefs getting in the way?"

yes i have, all the gods that i can find out about that have been claimed by people



"No one is born believing or disbelieving in God.."

no one is born believing or disbelieving in the Pillsbury dough boy either but what does that get us?






"But when I see murderers and all manner of despicable people being genuinely changed and are now a positive influence of the lives of others and are fighting against every ungodly thing in the world to save other men and women from a life of sin then I Know there is a God.."


so there is a situation for which you see and know not of why it is the case, ( i dont know) and therefore create a being and alternate dimension(heaven) with souls and god loving you to the point that he throws you in his basement and erases your parents memory of you while there in heaven so they can be happy robots??





"a God that allowed his only Son to die for you in hopes that you would be saved."

by that for which do you mean that god created a tree of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil then placed it in an exact location for which he knew with 100 percent certainty that eve would convince Adam to eat and all mankind would be doomed then he sent his son to earth to be crucified to forgive his own self, but 2 days later went back to heaven for which he came and death is not real for any human so it wasnt really a sacrifice?

or do you mean that god created Lucifer with full knowledge of what would happen but he said " yes, in this moment i make the choice to create Lucifer so that with 100 percent certainty human kind will be damned and i will have to create a son that gets sacrificed comes back in 3 days to heaven?





"God is calling you and anyone reading this today to repent and turn away from your sins.."

he has a weird way of calling me, that is not showing himself making the universe look identical to one for which him and spider-man do not exists except for words on paper. not saying anything to me or anyone and making himself identical to a child's imaginary friend.

then he proceeds to design our bodies and brains in such a way as we cannot differentiate between fiction and non fiction whatsoever , unless we have demonstrable evidence for which OF HIM there is none.


"The God of heaven who commands the stars and everything in creation"

and superman has x ray vision and is faster than a speeding bullet and can leap tall buildings in a single bound.






"Loves you and hopes above all that you be saved..."


saved from what? his own creation of damnation when he created lucifer and the tree of knowledge of fruit of good and evil?



:"Give the one true God a chance.."

how does one do that by your definition?







"Praying for all who may read this...be blessed and make dope music peace !!!""

thank you that means so much! i will prey for you too! ( pray to Gonzidlyio the 54 headed monkey with a 67" pecker that resides in the ultra-natural relam called rhestlious with his pet gopher with a bag of coins attached to a necklace. gawd bless!

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This thread is going to be anti-Bible? You and any one else can never unscramble the human's complicated emotions by your preaching. Believe me. What you are trying to say have been repeated million times before you by giant philosophers and religious dudes but at the end, science has destroyed all of them. Please let this issue go and focus on music. Please listen to this simple progression at the time I specified and feel the beauty of music:

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2017

"
Humans need to differentiate between fact and fiction, but words mean something even when that thing can not be real or proven by any measurable means. If Mr. Kloud says he wants to believe something because he has faith in it, that is true at least to him.

You and I do not agree might not agree with him that there is an invisible super powerful creature that loves everyone, the birthed himself in belly of some Jewish woman and died, came back, but was still his own father and himself at the same time and that even through live it will still burn people in a fire if they do not love him back. We can not deny that he feels this faith if he does nor not. His words means something to him, just like when I say... I love my dog, I love my wife, I love my children, I can not prove this love in any material way... but it does exist to me.

Translators help but there are small points where it is very hard to communicate a small idea because languages are different still and the machine just translates the words not always the meaning. I can not even read Chinese so even if the translator give me a smiple idea of what is being said it does not give me the detail."







"Humans need to differentiate between fact and fiction"

please give me "your truth" of how this differentiation occurs accurately







"but words mean something even when that thing can not be real or proven by any measurable means."

i get you on that , there can be a concept independent from where it is real or fiction.







"something because he has faith in it, that is true at least to him."

im simply saying having faith of that type is skipping the differentiating between fiction and reality or fiction vs non fiction
if im wrong just let me know how thats all.





"You and I do not agree might not agree with him that there is an invisible super powerful creature that loves everyone, the birthed himself in belly of some Jewish woman and died, came back, but was still his own father and himself at the same time and that even through live it will still burn people in a fire if they do not love him back."

pssssssshahahaha







""We can not deny that he feels this faith if he does nor not."


thatis exactly why i phrase the topic as i do so as to pertain to differentitating between fiction and reality or fictoin vs non-fiction

what he feels and his faith does not fall under that, IMHO is nobodies business, BUT the question of whether WHAT he believes is fiction or not is the question. if a human being decides or accidentality doe snot differentiate between fiction and non fiction the only thing i could think about that is that is the choice they made, or if they did it on accident i would try let them know i would never try to get rid of god on someone that wanted to keep their beliefs,



"His words means something to him, just like when I say... I love my dog, I love my wife, I love my children, I can not prove this love in any material way... but it does exist to me."




i HAVE HEARD THIS KINDA THING BEFORE (dramatic yellll! JK ;D)

no, the analogy is flawed , here is why you demonstrate your love, because to love means your actions will show respect trust compassion and dignity to the recipient , any outsider can see that you love the recipient







"Translators help but there are small points where it is very hard to communicate a small idea because languages are different still and the machine just translates the words not always the meaning. I can not even read Chinese so even if the translator give me a smiple idea of what is being said it does not give me the detail.""

i actually agree......................but that is why humans know GOD's language ( english............pssssssshahahaha)

 

Unfortunately, far back in our past when our brains became complex enough to allow us to generate what we describe as complex concepts, most of us decided to buy into, and "believe" our own bullshit. The best the poor souls who "believe" (about 95% of the worlds population) can do is to try not to cause damage to the rest of the universe. After that, the best all of us can do is try and find as much peace and joy (soley produced through chemical-electrical changes in our bodies by the way) as we can in our lives, and hope others follow the example. Everything in our universe is physical, except concepts (thoughts). However, all concepts are generated via physical means, and only take on physical form when acted on in a physical manner. I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but our thoughts are virtual, not real. Something does not come from nothing. There's no such thing as magic, Harry!

 

Here is the belief and faith i had before recognizing against my will i had become an atheist.

please note at the time i believed this i had gaps in my knowledge and i thought " i dont know"
equals that i could make up and answer and reality would conform to what I wanted.


I was what i called Simulist. That reality is a simulation and consciousness is the fundamental. think the MATRIX but instead of humans in battery containers that the entire reality is virtual computer code, a video game where your soul is what is real and all the souls connect to form god. if you wanna know more about this a man i found after i became atheist describes it fairly well.

https://www.youtube.com/user/twcjr44



now you might ask what is wrong with it?

the belief and faith is entirely compatible with science and reason with zero contradictions ( although i contest that with the quantum mechanics interpretation upheld in the belief i contest that it is false)


the real problem is the same as any other belief in god(s) soul(s) or afterlife)s_

there is absolutely no demonstrable evidence for it, and all the demonstrable evidence we have is against it.
the belief is entirely wishful thinking.




no differentiation between fiction and non fiction.

 

A little off topic but please help by answering , I am new here and this is my first thread. i want to create a thread for audio but im wondering what you think would be the most helpful useful and enjoyable AUDIO thread to create ? please let me know your opinions and share your wisdom.

 

"@MMJ2017 I was hoping for a good debate but as I can see that I couldn't tell you well. You are asking me, "so you believe in something , for which you dont know anything about?" I said I read his book and he creates everything. How can you think that I know anything?
I said "It's eventually everyone's own journey", because if there's a book and you really wonder it's fiction or not, you must read it. Do you read them or you just ask people who red it? I say it's written by God, somebody says it's not. If you're really seeking the truth, you must read it. My friendly advice is, read more to investigate and less talk with people. Stick with the concept, not the people. That's all I wanna say."

interesting thanks for writing back about it.

just want you to know something about me i wish that there was souls and afterlives even though my position is that reality has shown them to be fiction.


just like technology is the result (fruit) of science

reality would be the result (fruit) of god


if god made me a human being for which the only way i can differentiate between fiction and not is to have demonstrable evidence, then made the world identical to one where he is fiction, either god wants me to be an atheist for some reason, or he is deceptively hiding for another reason. either way reality is identical to if god souls and afterlives re fiction. what i mean bu that is say like superman faster than speeding bullet or the zombies in waling dead etc. that is to say the content of the proposition is false in reality itself ( the way things actually work , what exists)

 

Last edited: Apr 21, 2017

"This thread is going to be anti-Bible? You and any one else can never unscramble the human's complicated emotions by your preaching. Believe me. What you are trying to say have been repeated million times before you by giant philosophers and religious dudes but at the end, science has destroyed all of them. Please let this issue go and focus on music. Please listen to this simple progression at the time I specified and feel the beauty of music:":


i am not anti bible whatsoever i love all kinds of fictional books spiderman and the walking dead some favs along with the holy bible, my fav of the bible story is god putting the tree of good and evil in the location eve would def eat it thought that was funny as hell, and then where god created lucifer knowing what he would turn into and damn all mankind , god is the coolest super villain ever, way better than the joker ! YAHWEH YAHWEH! YAHWEH!

 

Last edited: Apr 21, 2017

Does that mean your own thoughts on such matters are also virtual and not real?

MMJ2017

All i've really seen you come up with so far is kind of a twisted re-hash of "The Case against God by George H. Smith"
However, personally i'm not convinced that you have properly made the definitions that support your argument.

However if that's what you choose to believe then cool

 

"Does that mean your own thoughts on such matters are also virtual and not real?

MMJ2017

All i've really seen you come up with so far is kind of a twisted re-hash of "The Case against God by George H. Smith"
However, personally i'm not convinced that you have properly made the definitions that support your argument.

However if that's what you choose to believe then cool "





"All i've really seen you come up with so far is kind of a twisted re-hash of "The Case against God by George H. Smith""


not familiar with it i will get a copy thanks.





ALL thoughts are made of arrangements of words which are made of letters which are shapes which are symbolic.

yes every human being inner experience is virtual not real, we have to get data and information about reality itself to say how IT is.








", personally i'm not convinced that you have properly made the definitions that support your argument."


and yet you made no attempt at demonstrating it or going into any detail and demonstrating that a part is wrong etc.


you just saying that you are not convinced tells me nothing and i dont know what you mean by that it too ambiguous







thanks for you comment.

 

If a person says they believe in gods souls or afterlives, but they say that they are not claiming them to exist in any other place then their thoughts, that they accept this arrangement of words, but it has nothing to do with reality itself they need no justification.

but, if they say they believe that gods souls or afterlives exist for real ( not fiction of their imagination) they need demonstrable evidence to accept that any thought ( about outside their experience (the way things actually work reality) is ever non fiction

so the supernatural thought is treated no different than any thought.

if i say i believe a man exists with 564,654 arms, i need the same demonstrable evidence in order to say the thought is not fiction, it goes for every thought anyone haves ever forever.


the only time my own thoughts ideas propositions have any value is if it matches to reality, i could know someone long time get into argument because i misunderstand what they say if i dont reality check my thoughts our whole experience is a tiny fragment of what is talking place in the situation. we can be wrong in our thoughts wrong in our storytelling wrong in our emotions and feelings we can have deep intense false emotions that are fictional

 

Last edited: Apr 21, 2017

a perspective of a human being is a tiny fragment of what is talking place in the situation.
we know people misunderstand, we know they can be wrong.
Imagine a situation for which 2 people been together for 60 years yet they have an argument because they misunderstand what each other are saying they tell themselves this false story inside their thoughts and immediately feel deep powerful emotions directly from the false story.
this happens everyday billions of people billions of situations. this is the topic of differentiation of fiction vs non fiction.

here is another situation,

you sit down to watch a film or movie, you know it is a fictional film, fake actors, fake script, fake lighting all fiction, yet as you watch you feel deep powerful emotions and feelings due to the storytelling you laugh you cry you yell at the screen and your brain accepts it is real for 2 hours.

here is the question why is it we dont sit there with thoughts each moment " this is just fake actors fake script fake lighting it all fake"

the answer is it takes effort to differentiate fiction vs non fiction in our thoughts ideas propositions

 

God help this thread!