Usually humans' essence or interests are unchangeable even by deep discussions. At the end of this thread, everyone will forget what have been said and will come back to his/her own way. So please don't try to prove anything you think is real. For all of us, reality is different.

 

Thesim is that someone BELEIVES in a god or worships
Atheism is that you dont worship or BELIEVE in a god
these positions are not about reality but about the person's perspective that it all it is about.

I myself think reality is so important i dont care about my belief or not it is demonstrably no god in reality anywhere

 

your answers are more ambiguous than the questions! you told us nothing! see what you did what called "make shit up" or fiction for short.

 

SO , yo write that i dont understand what someone is saying or a point their making, instead of showing what the point was or is and how i didnt understand it? what I am saying is your claiming that this event took place but not demonstrating it at all.

 

thats very interesting, so a person playing a guitar with their fingers is a miracle, sounds like we lowered the bar a bit for miracle? what eles is a miracle eating a f*cking ham sandwich i suppose? (joke)

"And surely no theory lesson will ever explain how a 16 yo kid played almost twice faster than he would ever possibly could."

the theory lesson is to show you your magical thinking about guitar is wrong, music is a language like any other. there is a way music works .

"but you possibly seem to forget i am 51yo and a professional musician all my life."


congrats you are 51 and i am 37 anyone want to light a candle for us?
last time i checked professional musicians don't attribute guitar playing to magic supernatural god soul or miracle , that is one guitar instruction video i am interested in watching though! hahaha ;D



"Miracles happen everyday."

i accept you seem to think that they do, but for which criteria has this been establish , anything the answer is " I dont know"
you demonstrated the was a situation where a normal thing happened a 16 played a guitar, then because you did not know HOW it was played you say it was a miracle? our ignorance does not equal a miracle, is it actually true that a 16 year playing guitar Violates the laws of nature? No. it is completely within the laws of nature sir.

"Miracles happen everyday."


certainly things happen that you dont know the answer to ( i take that as what you mean)





"it just makes me sleep better to let the more troublesome thoughts and questions resolve themselves with a little help from the divine, if this makes any sense to you."


so "I dont know" equals gods souls and afterlives ... got it.



"Convenience ? Perhaps. I call it belief."

well, that is one thing you sure DO know ( that you call it belief)




"I personally think being an artist and an atheist is a contradictory state of existence.'


thats why i love these talks this is the first time i have ever heard that art would be IMPOSSIBLE without a invisible man in the clouds who loves you , therefore if you masturbate you are going to be tortured in his basement for eternity .

here is an alternate explanation for ART , one could say ALL the humanities is a human expression of creativity.
what is creativity? one could say putting known variables together in new ways. see nothing violates the laws of nature there, no evocation of god souls afterlives or supernatural its just humans using their brain to express themselves (art)
when you call guitar playing a miracle you are putting known variables together in new ways , or using your imagination or being artistic or in this case talking fiction.

 

Last edited: Apr 18, 2017

re·al·i·ty
rēˈalədē/
noun
noun: reality
1.
the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.

 

"Usually humans' essence or interests are unchangeable even by deep discussions."
i never heard of such a thing my position is tentative on knowledge and learning it is much different now as an atheist than years ago when i just had wishful thinking and a lot left to learn. there is such a thing as neural plasticity check it out.


"At the end of this thread, everyone will forget what have been said and will come back to his/her own way. So please don't try to prove anything you think is real."

or, you are wrong and a proposition needs to be demonstrated in order to be considered not fiction, which means it is possible for a human to make a mistake misunderstand or just be wrong , and new information demonstrated to us is called "learning" we become convinved of new things based on learning and we change as we advance.

 

Why do you want to state your statement? I don't need any GOD or any atheism. No matter what the reality is. These questions are for making the masses busy.

 

@MMJ2017why start this blog ask a question, then have all of the answers to it yourself. do you want the world to know that your an atheist? you could have just said that then said goodbye.If your looking for true answers, why debate and rebuttle everyone who see life different from you.you also claim that you don't need to hear stories about 2k yr old peasants? well my belief comes from passed down history about the man, CHRIST JESUS, who I have experienced for myself. Now just because you don't believe in him, don't try to jog off believers as fictional. In fact your the one thats fictional and have to believe harder then me in the god of nothingness. Everything from air to the distance of the sun from earth is just right for us to live in, and you think this is coincidence? The heavens declare GODS glory. I don't belief in plural gods either, but you do. See you believe in the god of self, evolution, science and nothingness. Wow bro your a real spiritual person after all, with a lot of faith. lol.

 

If you have not heard such thing, just check out "our music" section and you'll find out that our made musics never evolve.

 

"Why do you want to state your statement?"


because this is what took place in reality.

you stated "For all of us, reality is different."

i then proceeded to demonstrate to you that what you said is fiction,

"reality
1.
the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them."



"I don't need any GOD or any atheism."

so you do not worship a god , and you are not in a position for which you do not worship a god?






"If you have not heard such thing, just check out "our music" section and you'll find out that our made musics never evolve."



no, you said.....
"
"Usually humans' essence or interests are unchangeable even by deep discussions."

i then responded with


i never heard of such a thing my position is tentative on knowledge and learning it is much different now as an atheist than years ago when i just had wishful thinking and a lot left to learn. there is such a thing as neural plasticity check it out."

 

About wonders: In the community i lived as a child and in my youth there was a praying circle. (In german language "Betkreis") Whenever i was there at the community center i noticed how they took cases of strokes of fate from all around the world to pray for a happy end. The cool thing was, they never failed. If the case turnt positive, we all were happy and hugged each other, because god showed his kindness. If the cases turnt bad, the same happened, but this time it was gods will, because he just wanted a soul for his reasons.

As i mentioned. It seemed like no one realized how stupid such praying wonders were. Not my parents. Not anyone from the elderly. But i for myself couldn't stand it. At the end i really really hated to realize how stupid these things were.

But. I have to confess, that i'am really jealous of those people and their easy happiness for nothing. This is something i will never experience.

And again. A wonder would be something, that happens outside of natural law. Anything else is coincidence or interpretation or lie or exaggeration or bias or desire or wanting or dreaming ...

 

well point slightly missed... point is, by doing any measurements we determine outcom... if we search for the god, we will find it and vice versa.
...but, on the other hand, judging by his almightyness, he could really be everywhere and thus, alive and dead in the same tame... and there is nothing to do but belive it or not, what in the end, is all about...
believieng is not a sience so you can't debunk one with another... and is that simple!

P.S.
this debate is ponitless on so many leves... but if being pointless is the goal, then this debate is on point!
theist or atheist is just another uneceseary division, for us humans, that we have some place to belong...
I challenge you all, be just humans!

 

Sorry. I just couldn't resist.

 

I am willing to make myself vulnerable, I order to show where I am coming from.
I grew up with my father a single parent , my mother had drug problems was out of my life since a baby. I was just me and my father he was extremely close, he taught me to believe in god in general with no particulars.
My father was a smart and creative man he was a head foreman carpenter and wood worker, at one of his jobs when i was 6. they were installing 6 foot glass plate windows in a skyscraper. we was on bottom assisting when a rope broke a glass plane fell 3 stories on his head shattered his entire spinal column , he lived. we has in the hospital for several months and by the time he came home we found out that he had destroyed all the discs in his spine but in a peculiar way, normally when this happens a person will be in the most pain of there lives for a moment before going paralyzed and losing sense of feeling and pain. his was different he was stuck in that pain state the doctors never seen anything like it, at first they tried several surgeries , ending up fusing most discs with the spine but he was stuck in the horrible pain state that is more to handle then people people ever feel or felt even for a moment. there was another problem though, they couldn't give him enough painkillers or pain relief, because the way his severe injury was if he couldn't feel the sensitivity from pain meds he could twist himself or hurt himself even more permanent even killing him. this meant he was stuck dealing with a type of pain unimaginable to human beings each moment for the rest of his life. there was no other option for him but to try and live life this way. so i was 6 years old as he raised me, he gave me 2 parents worth of knowledge , love affection , respect. he was and would always be the person i was the closest to forever, while at the same time every moment he was in so much pain there was no way to not see it no way for me to not feel it, to hurt inside for him. by the time i got older this instilled a sense in me of having a deep need for souls and afterlives to exits fro which i would not even question for a long time. as the years went on his condition worsened and worsened with no real option option than him trying to find some way to keep going on. by the time i was 20 ( year 2000)or so the internet was booming and i had been deeply researching expanding my knowledge , yet still never questioning my need to have souls and afterlives be real. well i continued to research and learn about every discipline on my own time everyday and i was "filling in the gaps" of my knowledge. by the time of 2012 i had reached a tipping point where i had to work hard in my own mind to hang onto these souls and afterlives beliefs , but into the year something had happened i kind of knew was going to eventually my father conditioned worsened so badly he couldn't even take care of himself in basic ways could not function and each moment of his life was so much misery he could not stand to endure it. he lived out in the country , was of his passions was fishing and boat building , one day he got up his strength took enough pain meds to be able to move around enough , he went over to a large tree on his property brought a massive boat rope , tied a special knot known in fishing that would hold a lot of weight and he hung himself in that large tree in a way that he knew for certain would break his neck and kill him. When i got the news of what had happened it devastated me because i love this person the most in life but yet i didn't want him to suffer i have never left this confusing state since they day of being upset losing him yet feeling it was his right to decide what he couldn't take anymore that i know for sure i couldn't handle either. yet in the back of my mind I still was fighting to hang onto my souls and afterlife belief .as time went on during that year with my research i was filling in the gaps of my knowledge and it was only so many months later i work up one day and I realized that moment no matter how hard i tried not to be I was an atheist , I couldn't have my generic souls and afterlives beliefs against my own will no matte how desperate i was to keep that it was already gone. reality had refuted what i wanted to be the case and i couldn't lie to myself i had to face it to realize i would never see my father again that was no fault of his own the suffering he lived with i just wanted to be with him a again someday where he was whole and was happy and we were together. it was never going to happen . I could also see things about him and his suffering i had chosen to ignore until i accepted i was an atheist that the injury was so sever it changed who he was yes he was kind generous loving etc. but his body and brain had so much damage his consciousness was not him anymore he knew it and tried to explain it to me and i turned a blind eye all this time because i wanted to hang onto faith that a souls and afterlife HAD to be real, how else could things be right and just? how else could i have the kind of relationship people take for granted and every else gets to have with their father? i just had to accept reality n matter how painful no matter what my opinion and wishes and desires were. this is how i becaome an atheist against my own will.

 

"well point slightly missed... point is, by doing any measurements we determine outcom..."


doing a measurement means interfering to the point of altering the experiment.
i said this already you could put up a detector that is so gentle it does not interfere with the experiment, yet also will not measure because the experiment is with atoms and the detector is made of atoms big shock right? atoms interfere with atoms.

 

There only god for me
and his name is R2R

 

Thank (god) you couldn't.

These discussions are so booooooooring.

(My son in law is postgraduate in catholic theology. Exegesis up and down, back and forth. All day long, sometimes nights either.)

 

only nothing will not intefering with nothing, and even then, to prove that, we will intefering by observating that!
and we don't know anything by certain, only by approximation of high certainty!

 

Last edited: Apr 18, 2017

But you cannot interfere with nothing , so by observing nothing, the interference is nothing.
But it's true, there is no such thing as absolute certainity. At least not on a subatomical level. On slightly a higher level I'm certain, one would bleed with a cut in his finger.