I've been using a ART MDC on the 2 bus after my summing experiment. Supposed to be the same VCA in it as SSL use. I'm still playing with levels and tone though before I post up an "after" mix. Also working on re-gain staging things. Perhaps by the weekend, I'll be able to repost this. I think running everything through the console really changed things so I'm trying to get a handle on what happened and be sure my adjustments do what I think they are doing.

Thanks for the tips!

 

Where it's at so far...



Been working on other material and bouncing back to this one. I think it's gotten much better in terms of the harshness in the mids and highs.

 

Put a tg12345 on the mixbus and widen(spread) the track.
Add a lindell te-100 as the last plugin on the mixbus and cut the 40hz and remove some 60hz.
Right now the energy of the track is saturated on the bottom, which takes away the energy and power from the snare, which makes the drums kind of not breaking trough the track.
Remove some bass heavy frequencies from the kick drum, remove some heavy freq. mud from the left and right distortion guitars.

 

@Von_Steyr, was NOT going to install any new plugins until I finished this project... Ah, who the hell am I kidding? What's one more dope EQ plugin?
Now to look and see if the TG12345 is in my Waves Bundle.

I used this EQ curve on the kick to get some bottom end thump and help it distinguish from the bass:
https://audiosex.pro/threads/local-rock-band-im-recording.24129/reply?quote=179566
Just realized he's only pushing 7dB. I've probably got it way higher than that. I'll reign that in.
For the distortion guitars, I was running a ribbon mic and a SM587. I've had luck choosing one or the other instead of mixing both together when there's mud in the low mids.

 

Yess bassy. Did you accidentally use one of my EDM eq curves on the master? jk

plugs I use to bring up the kick
Bark of the dog from Boz Exatcly the same thing as Little Labs Voice of God from UA just free instead of $150. Its just a simple eq boost and notch. an oldskiool kick eq trick. read the description and youll understand. (its the same curve spencer told me about but in a plugin)
bxBoom from plugin alliance is how I make my dance kicks boomy. Might be too much for most applications and youll have to dial it back in some. This will work on whole mixes to bring a kick out depending on how your low end is eqed, but I always just use it on the kick track/bus.

Also, maybe a little sidechain comp on the bass keyed by the kick? Not super prominent and noticeablee like EDM but subtle. Once you get the masking freqs sorted out that is. I do the same for lead vox and gtrs so the gtrs step out of the way for the vox That way I can keep the gtrs louder. Just a tad of reduction. not audible ducking.

Listening again on the cans. Some instruments are just a little bassy. Some hp filtering on the kick and gtrs should clean it up. But honestly like you, Im still figuring it out. But at least Im a lot more confident in my mixing now. I can finally hear what the controls on a compressor are doing and can tell what I need to do make them work together with the other tracks. Not just crank it til I hear a difference. I was lost for so long

 

Last edited: Apr 14, 2017

I think you should also think about changing or adding a paralel snare.Use the drumagog or slate trigger 2.
Or if its a sampled drum library go trough some other snares, or change the whole drum kit.
That is of course only my personal opinion and you should always go with your own instinct as it is your mix and you can do mix a 1000 ways, but certain essential rules are always to be followed.
If you need more energetic presence with your drum kit, send your drumbus trough some paralel compression like the black fg-116 from slate, crank it up and start with 10% and add more if needed.
Same can be done with the guitars to add more power without having to resort to a volume increase.
Use a basic sidechain compressor on the bass/kick track, solves many problems with a kick that is burried bellow the bass track.

I know what you mean about eqalizers, but trust me, lindell is a secret sauce kind of a plugin, acts very analogue compared to most plugins.
Also, most of the secret of a good mix lies in proper equalization, once you get that right, your mixes get 100 times better.

 

It is the priority that you give to the sound in the mix that separate a good mix from a bad mix.

Kinda like you can't have 20 people shouting at the same time. You will not be able to hear anybody or get the message they're trying to convey. You will have to talk to only a few people, but all the others are here to support those.

 

@Von_Steyr, I totally agree about proper equalization being the secret sauce to a good mix. I think this one has improved from the initial version I posted, it doesn't make your ears bleed anymore, haha. I've got the Lindell. Going to give it a whirl this weekend. The drums are a live recorded kit. I'm running the snare parallel to a Slate Trigger 2 snare (the Chili Peppers one) and also the kick (Dream Theater one) I'm running an 1176 in All Buttons on the overheads so allot of the snare (especially the sides) is coming in from that.
@subGENRE, I'll try ducking the bass after I tone the bottom end down. I've never experimented with that yet. Where do you usually hi pass guitars at? I've got mine around 80Hz normally depending on the part.
@SineWave, I totally get what you're saying about 20 people yelling at the same time. I asked for some help on this one because it's so busy, and I'm chasing depth and dimension on it which, from my experience, are harder to find room for in a busy mix.
So I guess I need to continue working on my eqing, and making room for the prominent instruments.

 

@digitaldragon 80 Hertz is a little low for guitars they're stepping on your bass and kick drum in that range. I usually start somewhere around 120hz and roll it around till it sounds right usually somewhere between 100-160hz. you can use one of those Spectrum analyzers with multi inputs and see where the masking is going on. Melda analyzer, izotope neutron eq, and voxengo span can show you this, with neutron you can eq it too but i like to use all the daws stock eq and plugs when i can unless im looking for a certain sound or flava

In EDM for years we have been eqing all the sub bass frequencies out of the kicks and then using sidechain compression ducking to make it fit better with the bass. Finding that delicate balance The Sweet Spot where the kick and sub would sit well together. Well not anymore, now it's all about the Boom . Now the new trend in EDM is huge boomy kicks rolled off at like 35 Hertz with side chain compressors punching a huge hole in the whole track for it and the snare. the sub-bass we only side chain to the kick but everything else in the track gets sidechained to the kick and snare including the vocals and sometimes even all the cymbals and percussion

 

Last edited: Apr 15, 2017

Sorry to rant so much another little trick to make room but you might already know this is m/s eqing. Like if I have a lead guitar and vocal in the same space and want to open up the guitar to make room for the vocal. I pull up a mid side EQ and just pull a little of the mids and highs out of the guitar just in the middle. you have to be careful with the mid side technique though cuz you will introduce all kinds of phasing issues if you go overboard with it

 

I use early reflections to create depth...Works really good for me! I tend to use Tsar reverb set to early reflections...Best of luck!

 

It's no rant! Very helpful. I've got Neutron so I'll probably start there with the masking. I don't know that I have a tool for m/s eqing so I'll have to look into that.

 

This advice is crucial for a good mix.Also do not forget to add a good reverb and also eq the reverb itself and compress the reverb buss so you have it under control.
Dont be afraid to really pull that low pass curve with your mouse on certain tracks to get them behind other tracks.When you low pass all tracks to an extent, then you can really make the vocals stand out with ease.
I would suggest you get good headphones like akg702 or samson sr850, they are great for revealing low bassy mud and harsh high mid frequencies.
The 2-5k region tends to be the very problematic when working only digital ITB, those frequencies also tend to build up, leaving you with a nasty harsh fatiguing sound.
Forget about trying to bring each instrument out, you need to sacrifice clarity of certain tracks, no matter how cool it may sound.
Its all about compromises.

 

Neutron eq has a m/s mode. Should be a little button on the left side I think, I may be confusing it with ozone. and Dont over do it

 

what are you using to compress this song? you using the ART ? i like the song just sounds like compressor is clamping on the mix to much responding to the huge amount of LOW end on the kick \m/ like Von said cut some that low out lol \m/

 

Last edited: Apr 14, 2017

I agree here, I was using stock ableton reverbs on everything but when pro r and verb suite classic came out I started using them on all my returns and the difference is night and day, or should I say amateur and pro.
Yes hipass and lopass. HP all the tracks that dont need bass but manually dial it in then back it off a hair. This seems to be the general rule of thumb for any adjustments, lol. Too much lows and it will muddy up the mix, too little and your sounds get thin. It is a balancing act. If you look on a spectrum analyzer sometimes a track that doesnt even have real bass content will still be jumping around on the low end of the analyzer. Even though this stuff is not audible, when you stack up the tracks it piles up and when you do your final comp and limiting it turns to mud making you lowend unclear.
I also will roll some highs off of gtrs with a steep curve sometimes depending on the gtr sound. Like distorted marshalls are more mids and mid highs, so if I need the space for the vox Ill roll off some of the highs on my gtrs somewhere around12.5k

 

Last edited: Apr 15, 2017

So true about the difference between reverbs and what it does to your tracks and other things you mentioned as well.

 

Brother @digitaldragon the stuff i do sounds more harsh than your first mix ... i listened to your first and this mix an i like the first one better \m/ but i know its fun too keep on till you get somthin you think is Right an sounds good to you \m/ >>> @ a mix is really never finished lol Keep at it man it will come to you brother \m/ theirs some good advise on this site forsure but it all depends on the listener too HAHA

 

@Jaymz, you are so right. I was just working on a track for a friend and I though the vox needed to come down like .5 -1db on the verses. He asked me if they were loud enough and thought they might need more. Its all depends on the listener and what theyre listening on

 

Last edited: Apr 15, 2017

@subGENRE